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Post by Balls on Aug 2, 2011 21:21:41 GMT
Sonic 2 for the Game Gear is alright, but it's really [censored]ing hard. Not hard in the same way Super Meat Boy is hard, it's not masochistic about it, but it is a genuine struggle, and to beat it, you need to know what it's going to do (and be able to second guess where the balls bounce in that first boss). The Master System Version, while the same game, is apparently a lot better, simply for having a bigger screen. and thus giving you more visibility. True for the SMS part. There is no second guessing with the balls in the first boss, as you can see them earlier with the larger screen, making it an, appropriately, piece of piss first boss.
With the exception of the attrociously designed third act of Green Hills Zone, I say with no exaggeration that, in my experience, 8 BIT Sonic 2 is the easiest 2D Sonic game to date. There are extra lives everywhere, the acts are fairly short, there aren't that many badniks and all of the bosses are laughable.
Getting the chaos emeralds is a challenge, but they're optional. Though you're missing out on Crystal Egg- the game's best level- if you don't get them.
Sonic 1 SMS and in fact MD are considerably harder than this game.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 2, 2011 21:57:26 GMT
Eraser is kinda meh. There are so many puzzle games and tbh only about ten worth playing. If that.
Sonic 2 GG is the hardest thing in the world. Sonic 2 MS is probably a fair bit easier, I wouldn't know because HANGGLIDERS.
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Post by Balls on Aug 2, 2011 22:55:00 GMT
Eraser is kinda meh. There are so many puzzle games and tbh only about ten worth playing. If that. Sonic 2 GG is the hardest thing in the world. Sonic 2 MS is probably a fair bit easier, I wouldn't know because HANGGLIDERS. The hanggliders are easy on both versions. Most people who complain about this have no idea how to use them. Just tap back on the D-pad once every couple of seconds and it will glide smoothly. People have a habit for some reason of pushing forwards, which will pretty much kill you instantly. But then, instead of learning, they just do that again and hope it works.
It's really, really easy.
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Post by Beeth on Aug 3, 2011 10:05:53 GMT
I quite enjoyed Sonic 2 on the Game Gear, in spite of its flaws it was a fun and challenging game with some pretty decent level design (except Green Hills 3, which was almost guesswork). The main obstacle for me is defeating the first boss, I've always found that to be a pain in the arse at the best of times. Though in a roundabout way, I think they may have done well putting it in first, as it means you can get it out of the way fairly early on and don't have to worry so much about its awkwardness for it.
Sky High's hanggliders we're a bugger for me once, too, until I learned how to properly use them (to be fair, it wasn't the most intuitive thing in the world, albeit not as bad as the Carnival barrel). I recall thinking once there was a way to get through the level without necessarily needing to use them, and was duly disproved by our Stu.
And I've never played Crystal Egg. Everytime I've beaten this game to date, I've ended up with the "Tails dies" ending for not getting all the chaos emeralds. Bit of a shame really, it looks quite nice.
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Post by Samface on Aug 3, 2011 10:45:12 GMT
There's a level select that I used to use for getting to Crystal Egg, but I've forgotten it. Anyone? I think the methods differ depending on whether you're playing the MS or GG version.
Oh, and I don't much care for this game either. A few nice sections, but that's it.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 3, 2011 18:01:44 GMT
SMS version is holding Left + Buttons 1 and 2 on the Player 2 controller for the entire opening demo screen (which on an SMS pad is hell itself), then tapping Button 1 on Player 1's pad on Tails' third blink.
It's ludicrously obtuse, almost never works, and it is almost easier to play the entire game.
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Post by Arch on Aug 3, 2011 23:01:16 GMT
Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball, 1993 - Mega Drive/Game Gear/Master System It took me years before I could play Sonic Spinball. Fortunately, when an old friend brought it round, it was the only "2-player" game I didn't shout and swear about when I lost, being the notoriously bad loser that I was. Finally, I was given the chance to play a lost gem! What did I think..? Well, it's pretty good, really. Spinball took the fun diversion of Casino Night and made a game out of it, making Spinball itself a fun diversion - for a while. Leaping into Toxic Caves/Pools always feels like something good is about to happen, and no amount of monster-dodging, Badnik-bopping, switch-switching and barrel-er-sailing is ever enough. All this whilst racking up an insane high score. Unfortunately, Lava Powerhouse comes along and it's a bit of a step down. Before you can go anywhere, you have to take time out to blast a door down. Then you're pretty much heading for the same place three or four times, all while having to rely on the sometimes-bouncy-sometimes-not Clucks. It's a dull level that's rescued by The Machine, with feels more vibrant and exciting, even if it just consists of four large-ish chambers. The Animal Prison is a nice idea, but it really is trial and error getting to some of the far-flung cells. Finally, Showdown is an exercise in complete madness. Navigation is tricky, survival isn't likely and aiming for the right buttons just isn't happening. Coupled with the disastrous boss and you can be excused for quitting early. Other bosses are much more fun; Scorpius (or whatever) makes genuinely terrifying noises of pain before impressively exploding, the Roboboiler (or whatver) is alright to get into but annoying that you have to exit three times (and woe betide if you get knocked out of the arena - it took me 13 years to realise you had to swing the chain!) and the remaining boss is fun 'cos it looks nice and is easy. Bonus stages are a nice distraction, although there's not a lot of pressing the flippers at times with such a bouncy ball. SatAM and AoSTH characters also not appreciated. So, Spinball is fun to go back and play but you might soon regret it. GG version seems to start like a genuinely different game with a completely altered first level and the bonus levels, but then it's identical! MD version is superior, discuss.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 3, 2011 23:15:18 GMT
A wholly underrated title. Why Spinball has been the subject of such derision over the years, I simply do not know. The physics aren't Sonic physics, fair enough, they're ball physics with added walking ability but that's sort of the point!
The music's seriously brilliant.
Needlessly hard/unfair in places, mind you, but that's not something that can't be overcome with practice.
Good game.
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Post by Nam on Aug 4, 2011 0:48:50 GMT
It gets it's derision because Pinball requires a [censored] tonne of mastery to be able to actually get the ball to go anywhere close to where you want to go, which can make it maddening when you've missed the one tiny little thing that you need to hit for the thirtieth time in a row.
Sure, Sonic is a little more controllable than your conventional pinball, but that doesn't make it better. He still doesn't go where you like most the time, something that is only exasperated by having to do most things more than once. In the first stage alone, you need to hit two switches to drain the slime and open the tubes to two new flipper sections. In those you need to hit a rail switch, and destroy three barrels. You do this on both sides, so that's six barrels. Then you need to get up to the mine cart three times, once to go for the left emerald, once for the right, and once for the emerald in the slime. Only then can you climb up the whole level again, to get to the boss. It's maddening having to do so many things repeatedly. If the stages didn't have so much repetition it wouldn't be so bad, but having to make the same skill shot three times left and three times right very quickly gets old.
Basically, the problem is that pinball works because it's a pursuit of score. You're not trying to get anywhere, you're not really forced to do anything., Sure there are loops, targets, and often timed bonuses where you get a big bonus for hitting all the flashing targets in a few seconds, but the only task is to keep the ball on the table. There is no win condition, just a pursuit of high score.
Sonic Spinball fails because it has a win condition, so unless you're that deaf dumb and blind kid from that song, chances are you'll be spending a lot of time trying to get somewhere and failing. Trying to get to the top of the level means you aren't just trying to keep the ball in play, so the bonus shots from a conventional pinball game, become mandatory, and they are something that a lot of people can't do, and that's why it gets flack.
That and the music's pretty darn awful.
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Post by Alex on Aug 4, 2011 2:06:50 GMT
It also has really weird physics for a pinball game, giving everything a very heavy and clunky feel. Good pinball games feel fluid, quick and dynamic - which you think would be a natural fit for Sonic, so God knows why they didn't just go down that route.
Spinball's not really a bad game, it's just a stupid one. It doesn't really deserve much more than footnote on the franchise's history page - just like any pinball video game, really.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 4, 2011 8:46:49 GMT
I love Spinball. Short and sweet, superbly funky music.
Criticising the most varied pinball game of all time by saying it's not varied enough is ridiculous, you are asking a pinball game to not be pinball. Standard pinball sims only have a few tables of a few screens. Actual pinball only has one table, crazily, and you can see the whole thing at once, which obviously changes the dynamic. Spinball is built around being a console game, with tables designed to cater for that.
"I suck at it so it sucks" is also invalid criticism. Sonic goes where I want him to unless I [censored] it up, because after about ten minutes of practice you learn how the D-pad affects your trajectory, and whereabouts on the flipper you need to be to launch where you want. Sure, it's not automatic, but as with every game ever it's a learning process, and not a difficult one. It doesn't even have tilt, for goodness' sake.
Sonic Spinball has its cons - table 3 is a little too obtuse, the non-pinball bits control like ass, the framerate is choppy - but it's a great little game nonetheless, and criticising it for being too much like pinball is a little bit confusing, since it is a pinball game.
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Post by Samface on Aug 4, 2011 10:56:12 GMT
Spinball is terrible. The only nice things I can say about it is a) the graphics are pretty good and b) at least it's not the 8-bit version.
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Post by Arch on Aug 5, 2011 10:14:38 GMT
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, 1993 - Mega Drive/Game Gear/Master System I'll get this out of the way - this game is supposedly a Westernisation of Puyo Pop which, outside of Sega Superstars Tennis, I've never heard. Because of that, I'm going to talk like MBM is a totally innovative (that word just looks wrong) experience. K? K. Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is a totally innovative experience when it comes to puzzle games, or at least it felt like it when I first got my hands on it. Welcome to Beanville, where the beautifully-coloured beans are being turned into Badniks because Robotnik doesn't like fun and music, supposedly. The storywriters behind this game would quiver if they got to have an early look at the STH2006 script, that's for sure. In the only game (that I can think of) that has the Western name of "Dr. Robotnik" slapped all over it, the simple premise is to stack or line up beans in a way that four are arranged in a bundle, which causes them to disappear. Very "Tetris"-esque. The fun is sending some of these in the form of grey/dead beans to the opposite side and causing obstructions that prevent the creation of combos. And it is combos you'll need, particularly later on in story mode as the challenges get even more fearsome. It's all well and good just going for the first bundle you see every time, but it's much more fun to prepare a few combos and watch them cascade down. "Story" mode, as I've mentioned, just involves the player character (possibly Sonic, maybe just YOU) tackling Robotnik's 12 minions at a nice game of MBM before taking on a Robotnik that looks nothing like he usually does. Welcome to Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog the Game, but it's not all bad. The robot masters only appear briefly to whittle off some silly puns before you can watch them wail in their own stupidity and bask smugly in your pre-prepared triumph. The enemy's programmed bean drop strategies can vary between absolutely daft to seemingly daft until it all unfolds - on top of you. The real fun in this game, however, is multiplayer. "But it's exactly the same as single player!" I hear all of you cry out loud. Except that playing it in a group of friends is arguably the most fun you should be allowed to have playing on an 18-year old game. The tension! The excitement! The persistent yelling of " COMBO!" when it all gets too much for the opponent before they get replaced by the next hapless contestant. My hoarde of old pals may be complete novices on most games that aren't FIFA, but we always enjoy spinning some Mean Bean Machine for an hour on an off day. In this vein of puzzle game, this is probably my favourite. Columns comes close, but this just keeps me coming back more often. A lot of people won't agree, but that's where you come in. A Game Gear version came out later and is almost identical except for crappy graphics. One bonus is the scenario (?) mode, allowing you to solve problems like removing certain beans or defeating them all. It's great to start with, but there's one I just couldn't get past and left it. That was four years ago.
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Post by Beeth on Aug 5, 2011 10:24:29 GMT
Despite it's inferior graphics and sound, I actually preferred the GG version of Mean Bean Machine based on its scenario mode, which I put almost as much time into as I did the main game on that format. It was a nice little addition.
Funnily enough, I'm working on an LP of Puyo Puyo, the Japanese game on which this is based. It's only partially done thus far, but it'll be up soonish. Overall, Machine is a sweet little game which, since first getting to play it on Mega Collection, I've often played as an alternative to/instead of Columns. Nice way to pass a bit of time.
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Post by Tom J on Aug 5, 2011 10:36:31 GMT
MBM is great fun and I used to play it a whole bunch. Occasionally still do. I even remade it once (the generic gameplay), great waste of time edit: haha
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 5, 2011 11:00:19 GMT
My only problem with MBM is that I'm [censored]ing awful at it. The music and graphics appeal to me immensely.
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Post by Samface on Aug 5, 2011 11:01:44 GMT
I only got my hands on this recently-ish, with Mega Collection for the Gamecube. It's a neat little puzzle game. I'm terrible at it, mind.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 5, 2011 11:05:26 GMT
It's Puyo Puyo with Sonic characters. No problems here.
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Post by Alex on Aug 5, 2011 13:02:46 GMT
Mean Bean Machine is the only puzzle game worth playing with a friend. Getting to [censored] them over so completely by being awesome at your own board is such a delicious feeling.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 5, 2011 13:05:45 GMT
Mean Bean Machine is the only puzzle game worth playing with a friend. Tetris Attack, Tetris Battle Gaiden and Bust A Move 4 join it.
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 5, 2011 13:06:42 GMT
And Portal 2.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 5, 2011 13:07:52 GMT
Ah, man... don't. Don't do that.
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legionfan44
Boomer
Friend of the Floating Island
Posts: 61
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Post by legionfan44 on Aug 5, 2011 14:24:50 GMT
Sonic's 20 years old, I'm 20 years old...man I feel old. Anyway. Can't belive Sonic has been running around for 2 decades now, I have to say its sure been a interesting ride between all the Games, Comics & Toons sonic has had over the years, he's gathered quite a diverese & interesting fanbase (given some can be abit iffy at times, but meh.) Anyway Happy 20th Sonic, Cheers! May you run for many more.
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Post by Arch on Aug 6, 2011 10:03:14 GMT
Segasonic the Hedgehog, 1993 - Arcade [/center] Just a quick one, this one. Haven't played this in years but I remember it controlling like absolute dog poo poo. Maybe because I wasn't using the actual trackball, but I can't imagine that being that much better. Continuing on the theme of alternative Sonic games, "Sonic Arcade" just involves you running and occasionally jumping. That's it. Run from one giant trap behind you whilst dodging smaller ones in front of you. It's a bit more fun than it sounds, but not much. Notable for being the first appearance of Mighty and the only one of Ray. Graphics are lovely, can't remember the sound. Worst bits are trying to navigate the log puzzle on Wild Water Way (I think) and the one boss in the game. The 20 seconds required to flee the base at the end is pretty [censored]ing harsh, too. "Long" story short: I would've liked to have played this in the arcades but I'd probably harbour just as much disdain for it as I do Sonic the Fighters once I eventually got a go on that. Next Time: Still not a Mega Drive game!
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 6, 2011 12:57:03 GMT
Played this on MAME. That ruined it really since I could keep pumping "coins" in. Last level time limit is too cruel. Pretty alright game, nothing special.
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