|
Post by Alex on Feb 6, 2014 23:10:43 GMT
Ugh. The designs are rather embarrassing. The stupid strappy nonsense, the (even weirder than before) proportions, whatever the hell is meant to be going on with Knuckles... It's like bad fan art... The frustrating thing is that watching the cartoon video, there are moments where it kinda works for Sonic - but moments where it just looks awkward and wrong. I'm just extremely baffled at the idea that redesigning them at all was necessary. They quite clearly are (and very much look it) over-engineered. In no small part because they'd cracked it quite well post-Adventure. At least when they updated them for Sonic 06, they were very much to the same design - just of more 'realistic' proportions (and amazingly, they managed to get that right so much better than they have here!) I don't even know what's going on with the game, though at least the scenery looks good (in that sense, I'm quite pleased to see that the rumour that Big Red Button were working on a Crysis engine Sonic game ended up being bang on), but the gameplay looks... un-Sonic for the most part. Really, it looks more like a Ratchet and Clank style game. Also more than a little concerned that after a number of games playing it safe with "Just Sonic" that their first attempt after that is to go full on Sonic [censored] Heroes again. At the very least, I will take back my criticisms of the cartoon series of likely to be just "lol well random" nonsense. Thankfully, they have at least seemingly taken on board that the humorous writing of the games since Colours was more than enough to stand up on its own - though in stand alone 11 minute episodes, I'm not sure how much they can really do with that without it just devolving into "which funny way can Sonic beat THIS stupidly named robot" every episode with little garnish otherwise. Again, though, I just can't understand why the need for the terrible redesign in order to do it... I had a lot of confidence in this franchise after Generations, but first it was shaken by Lost World's Mario aping antics (which while it doesn't make it a terrible game, for me it made it somewhat soulless and quite void of 'feeling like Sonic'), and now Sega's taken all that strength built up by (the good bits of) Unleashed, Colours and Generations and thrown it out the window to take the entire series in a somewhat extreme change of direction. Unfortunately, for me, it's one that seems too reminiscent of the "me too" rushing that's resulted in the worst of the Sonic games. Massively unconvinced this is the right move for the franchise. Will be disappointed if this is finally enough to push me out of it entirely...
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Feb 6, 2014 23:32:41 GMT
I find it really peculiar that this is actually a thing. Frankly, it doesn't matter how good the designs are: they will inevitably be inferior to the originals because the originals were designed organically from the ground up with a purpose in mind. Redesigning them is an exercise in futility, especially as Sonic himself is an INCREDIBLY well-designed character, with everything communicating something about his character and purpose. There wasn't an ounce of fat on him (metaphorically); now there is, with bandages and a scarf and a larger body that surely would only serve to get in the way of him rolling into a ball? This is to say nothing of Knuckles, who just looks incredibly awkward, with the same head on a completely different body. It looks like a comedy Photoshop; it feels almost tentative, judging by how much of the original design is retained. By way of example, if you want to see a well-done Knuckles redesign, check this out. This is a great redesign as nothing is sacred: it takes the concept behind the character, whittles everything else down, and rebuilds it from the ground up, keeping it familiar while also being drastically different. Tails and Amy are nice (I'm especially gratified to see Tails finally have his main character trait since Sonic Adventure - his mechanical ability - be incorporated into his character design at long last), and Robotnik is a fun redesign as well. But I'm getting no creative thrust or cohesive idea from it; it just seems like hap-hazardly throwing things at a wall again. Pretty much everything else is a mixed bag as well. Some of the animations are great, some of them are awful. Some of the writing is great, some of it is a real stretch. Some of the gameplay looks great, sometimes it looks like it's suffering from the same identity crisis Lost World did but with Ratchet and Clank rather than Mario. I'm sincerely not just dismissing this as worthless. I hope that it's good! I hope that kids and fans get a kick out of it. But honestly, between the awkward, almost DESPERATE redesigns and the generic looking enemies I have absolutely no faith that this will come close to capturing the charm and mystique that made Sonic special. And honestly it's one step closer to making me realise that this franchise has long since stopped being for me in any capacity.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Feb 6, 2014 23:42:51 GMT
Ever since Mambo pointed out Sonic's got the same poncho as in STC-O, I can't stop noticing it.
The redesigns, I guess that's because show/game designers like making their stamp on characters and the sort of executives who order a revamp will like a redesign for the same reason: now it's their Sonic.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan James on Feb 6, 2014 23:46:56 GMT
This is interesting, it turns out our first actual look at the game was from almost a year ago.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Feb 7, 2014 0:01:42 GMT
So, apparently, the point of the redesign is "to make Sonic more Western", and the original franchise will continue unabated from the Japanese teams (while Sonic Boom won't be released in Japan at all): www.polygon.com/2014/2/6/5387184/why-sega-handed-sonic-over-to-western-studios-and-gave-him-a-scarfSo now we're going to have a Japanese Sonic franchise (and who knows if we'll ever get that over here again) and a Western Sonic franchise. It's like Sega haven't learned their fatal mistakes of [censored]ing about between their regional departments (the West/Japan divide is what drove them to their doom in the 90s). Frankly, considering that the Sonic franchise has always been far more successful in the west than it has in Japan, I'm baffled at the idea that it's the -west- that needs a weird new redesign to try and get people on board. It's crazy "design by committee" nonsense and that never leads to greatness...
|
|
|
Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Feb 7, 2014 0:53:28 GMT
You think Sonic Team games won't ever be released here again?
I thought Sonic wasn't popular in Japan, so why do that? :s
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Feb 7, 2014 1:32:25 GMT
You think Sonic Team games won't ever be released here again? I thought Sonic wasn't popular in Japan, so why do that? :s This is a company that in the 90s, at the height of their East/West divide, developed two independent games consoles (the defunct Jupiter and the eventual Saturn) on different sides of the planet, out of a pig-headed insistence that each market had to "do their own thing". It's this exact effort and mismanagement of the global business that brought Sega to its knees. It's a little concerning to see Sega even begin talking about dividing Sonic up between the west and Japan in this way. It's also not exactly that difficult to see future Sonic Team games being blocked out on grounds of "potentially confusing consumers", so it should definitely not be ruled out as a possibility, even if it is - just like wasting money on R&D on internally competing games consoles - something that makes no sense.
|
|
BM
New Boomer
Posts: 32
|
Post by BM on Feb 7, 2014 1:53:26 GMT
Thank you so much for posting that! Not only is it always nice to see conceptual work as strong as that, it puts the current crap peddled by Sanzaru and their ilk to shame. This is where we need to be moving into, not this undecided, poorly thought out mandate we've received instead.
|
|
|
Post by Michael on Feb 7, 2014 2:07:11 GMT
No offense to SEGA of Japan but they've been terrible wards of the Sonic franchise since Sonic Adventure 2. And even then, both Adventure games were victims of some very Japanese ways of thinking that then led to Sonic X.
SEGA of America have spent some time putting together something that is geared towards a western sensibility and they seem to have done a thorough job so far. There's absolute potential both the show and game will be terrible but I see no indication of that from a few animation problems in the beta videos shown today.
As for the redesigns, I don't really get the toilet paper but I don't dislike it. The series needed a redesign that was different enough from Sonic Adventure to distinguish itself as a new entity and that's certainly been accomplished.
It's strange, I was really terrified of Knuckles' redesign following the silhouette reveal last year but I don't mind it so much here. Knuckles should be bulkier than the rest.
As for what SEGA of Japan do next, who knows. But, I don't think it's a bad thing to give the west a shot. Last time we got SatAM and STC so...
|
|
BM
New Boomer
Posts: 32
|
Post by BM on Feb 7, 2014 2:12:57 GMT
See, my problem is not that these redesigns exist, that people aren't giving it a chance, that Japan totally screwed up royally on several occasions in handling Sonic.
It's that for all intents and purposes these redesigns are horrific.
You're talking to someone who trains alongside Disney, Aardman, Ghibli and Pixar conceptual workers and who's pushed to the absolute limit in conceptualising character design. I'm nowhere near the right level but I've been coached to really judge this stuff before I even begin putting together a portfolio. And this stuff is lazy as balls.
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Feb 7, 2014 7:55:43 GMT
I dont like the designs but I dont care enough to really think of why.
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Feb 7, 2014 8:45:23 GMT
If Sega are outsourcing Sonic to the West I'm all for that, but they continue to exhibit a very loose grasp on how to do so. Firstly, let me say I'm not entirely against the idea of an alternative universe for this game. It's evidently not a traditional Sonic game, with a lot more focus on combat rather than speed. So in that regard, redesigning the cast to separate the sub-series from the main series strikes me as a sensible move. But what it also means is that we've got a bunch of designers trying to separate their version of an iconic character from the other versions, and it just looks [censored]ing awkward. Again, Sonic is a very tight character design, with everything instantly communicating something about his character and abilities. Sonic Boom's Sonic, whilst running, even in the cartoon, just looks awkward. Same with Knuckles, who now has even less of an excuse to be moving at super-speed. But what REALLY worries me about this is that, as Alex has already mentioned, it was fragmenting Sonic that really did them in come Sonic Adventure, when they had to let the rest of the world know that they had been calling Robotnik incorrectly and that Sonic always lived on Earth. This has arguably even more drastic changes than that, and I do have to question the decision to fragment the series again so soon after, at long last, there was basically just ONE Sonic canon (with Archie serving almost as an expansion of that).
In fact, no, let's rag on Knuckles' design a little more. Firstly, his name is KNUCKLES. What were once his largest and most eye-drawing features (his hands) have been replaced with his body bulk, which now dominates his character design. However, a lot of this is obscured by his long dreadlocks, which previously drew the eyes down to his hands. This means he doesn't have the room to show off his newfound bulk. The icing on the cake is Knuckles normal-ass head on top of those shoulders. It really does look like a comedy Photoshop and it REEKS of design by committee: the execs were evidently worried that changing him so drastically would make him unrecognisable. It wouldn't have. It just would have made him look less awkward. I never thought old Knuckles was a perfect character design: his shoes and gloves never really communicated "solitary, last remnant of an ancient society", and more "off down the shops mate", and his body style was a bit too similar to Sonic's. But that was why he was an echidna: so he could curl into a ball in order to rival Sonic! Now, the obvious retort to that is that he is no longer Sonic's rival, and his new design should reflect his new skillset, which involves punching and climbing. The two things old Knuckles was designed to do as well. So that's that out the window. All in all a horrible effort that looks like a dA mock-up and I'm genuinely flabbergasted that this was a professional work.
|
|
|
Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Feb 7, 2014 10:28:51 GMT
I feel like I can't complain too much about Boom Sonic; he shares a few features with STCO/O Sonic such as the extra mini-spike by his ears and the brown scarf reminds me of the poncho we've recently seen STCO Sonic wear.... but I don't like how the power sneakers are no more. Those shoes are iconic, they belong to Sonic and removing them is quite jarring. Stuff like blue arms, I can see that being done to make him more similar to Shadow and Silver, should they appear.... but then again Amy has peach arms.... :s
Knuckles just looks...odd... why does he need to be *that* big? Sure, give him more beefy arms than Sonic, who should be more streamlined, but that chest, and the knuckle dusters? Dayam. I can see why they've given him fingers, maybe it's easier for them in certain situations or poses but it still feels odd to me... Poor Knuckles.
Tails and Amy, though... I have to say I like. Tails' goggles and Bat Belt are adorable and show off his additional talent as an engineering boffin, and as a pilot... but I hope it doesn't detract from his original design purpose; his twin tails acting as a propeller. I'm also happy with Amy as she hasn't been changed that much, and for some reason they haven't gone nuts with the sports tape. She looks much neater and cleaner than the boys. Her agility in the trailer also says to me we finally have a competent Amy who can show her stuff, and her main purpose is not just chasing Sonic.
Now, the game's trailer interest me. The game play reminds me of Heroes, and I like the idea that they all seem to be based on speed. The world designs look lovely and wouldn't be out of place in STC! The models however look unfinished, and the enemies appear to be generic robots again. Maybe Badniks are reserved for Sonic Team?
The cartoon.., eh, I'm not sure if I would be that interested in it, but there appears to be an AoSTH/Colours feel to it. Some of the animation looks a bit odd but its a WIP. .. Happy to hear Pollocks Eggman, but I'm still not used to Smith's Sonic.... but this Sonic appears to be older, and my main qualm was that recent Sonics voice sounded a little bit old...
My main concern is that although Boom is an AU to Modern Sonic, this will become the primary Western Sonic, and we don't get to see Sonic as he was again... I hope Sega continue to re release older games to Steam, as I've been happy to play old games, I also enjoyed Unleashed and want to continue catching up... but I fear that the Sonic I grew up with may no longer be something we can access.
Thank [censored] for STCO, eh?
|
|
|
Post by KeHo85 on Feb 7, 2014 12:00:25 GMT
The thing that did stun me the most was Sonic's blue arms and Knuckles' appearence, but now I've had time to watch the trailers multiple times, I can say I'm warming to the idea. SEGA have not done a great job with Sonic since Adventure, and have tried a lot of weird things to improve Sonic when really it should have been about speed and the story.
I like the tape. It's a good concept and makes the characters look like wanderers rather than a bunch of animals that never have a home but always look like they've just stepped out of a nice house, with their clean looks and shoes. The tape and scarf for Sonic does make him look like a traveller and gives a great look on how he never stays in one place for too long. Knuckles... welll... while I feel he is slightly too bulky, the idea of him being bigger than the other characters was something I always thought would have been a good design choice considering his immense strength. Perhaps they should have kept him the same but rather made him half the size he is in the new canon. A little bit of muscle would have been sufficient.
I love Tail' design, it really suits him well, but I just hope that they make Amy a more strong female lead rather than just the typical girl who follows Sonic around. It's an act that is far too old and is kinda offensive in the terms that the only female character in the Sonic universe that resembles a female lead is one that has to pine over someone who so obviously isn't interested. That's why I always thought that SEGA should have hired the STC writers for something like this. They handled Amy in a completely new manner that really made me like the character.
Overall, I'm excited about this and really can't wait to see it.
|
|
andy
New Boomer
Posts: 37
|
Post by andy on Feb 7, 2014 15:02:24 GMT
Well, those redesigns are pretty lazy. They really do seem to be redesigns for the sake of it rather than any real insight into the characters or anything. As most people have noted, Tails and Amy made it out ok but there are a lot of random, fussy elements. The bandages are probably the strangest. If they'd just given them to Knuckles, it might have made sense, evoked a muy thai fighter, but randomly applied over everyone including their shoes, it's a bit of a mess. Knuckles has been bulked up in the cheapest way possible and Sonic's scarf would only make sense if they stayed in that desert setting the whole time. The thick and thin spikes are again a little fussy and served only to make the character less streamlined.
The blue arms I understand though. Sonic's peach-coloured arms were probably only given to him to help differentiate his arms on a 16-bit sprite, the same reason Mario wears dungarees. It's not really necessary on a 3D character and I imagine the animators were concerned with giving him more expression in his shoulders (although this isn't really backed up by the example pose sheet). Since Amy wears a dress, it's not really a problem for her so they left her arms peach, though they should have changed them for consistency. So that's the answer to only complaint I saw on Youtube.
On a positive note, the animation isn't bad and Sonic had some nice facial expressions. The clip seemed to show a good balance between action-adventure and humour. I think the show will live or die on its scriptwriters' creativity. A good variety of situations should keep it fun.
Also, this fills out Sega's 3-game contract with Nintendo, meaning the next Sonic Team game will be multi-platform release.
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Feb 7, 2014 15:59:34 GMT
You think Sonic Team games won't ever be released here again? I thought Sonic wasn't popular in Japan, so why do that? :s My guess is - 2015 - Sonic Boom. 2016 - Sonic Team's Sonic game. 2017 - Sonic Boom Universe game. and so on.
|
|
Smithy
Artist Hume
(A Small Borneo Mammal)
Queen of Pig Torture
Posts: 3,387
|
Post by Smithy on Feb 7, 2014 16:33:09 GMT
Just realised that Knuckles looks like an Albert Uderzo character so I'm kinda in to it now.
|
|
|
Post by Beeth on Feb 7, 2014 21:26:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Feb 7, 2014 21:31:38 GMT
2017 - Sonic Boom Universe game. Sonic Boomiverse.
|
|
|
Post by RedDevilDazzy on Feb 7, 2014 21:44:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Feb 7, 2014 21:50:45 GMT
I think the continuing longevity of the games will be largely dependent on the cartoon, to be honest.
|
|
Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
|
Post by Adamis on Feb 8, 2014 1:17:01 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Feb 8, 2014 1:41:52 GMT
Seen that Tumblr post a few times, but it doesn't address the removal of the Power Sneakers. Those really need to be there under the tapes, I think...
|
|
|
Post by The Stiv™ on Feb 8, 2014 5:30:25 GMT
I figured that about the bandages around the feet. What I want to know is how he wrapped up his feet over his shoes, then managed to put his socks on underneath it all
|
|
|
Post by Devo DrakeFox on Feb 8, 2014 16:35:03 GMT
I just wish they'd hurry and release the series so I can sit down and watch it, THEN decide whether or not it's any good and/or if Sega have destroyed the franchise. Another concern is how the introduction of the Boomiverse is going to affect the Archie comics. The comics have already gone through enough changes following the Penders fiasco ([censored]ING PENDERS!! ), will the emergence of a new sub-franchise result in Archie having to make further alterations to an already fractured continuity?
|
|