|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 6, 2008 11:43:16 GMT
DC's problem is that it takes its silly characters and concepts way too seriously. everything has to be so realistic in a world where an alien flies around cities in his underwear and a grown man dresses up as a bat every night to fight crime. and let's go overboard with the interconnectivity while we're at it (which too many writers and editors forget, it was only ever meant to be fun, never a burden). I like how serious DC is. It's the one really great thing about it. It's so dark. Marvel is too colourful and wacky. I know it can be dark but on a whole it's pretty light and comic. The opposite of DC really. And I'd argue DC is a lot more human in character, what with it having more human heroes and stuff. Point taken on how the Crisis storylines are complicated. But if you were a new reader you wouldn't need to know about any of that stuff and 52 explains it pretty well anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jul 6, 2008 12:13:55 GMT
I like how serious DC is. It's the one really great thing about it. It's so dark. Marvel is too colourful and wacky. Traditionally it's viewed as the other way around, isn't it? And Marvel's last big stories involved a superhero civil war that forced everyone to be an outlaw or government employee, the Hulk come down to beat to death those who think betrayed him only to fall at the end, two massive genocidal wars in space, and currently violent invasion and mass betrayal by extremist aliens. Plus, stuff like Punisher MAX, Warren Ellis on Thunderbolts, Avengers: The Initiative, The Ultimates and so forth.
|
|
|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 6, 2008 13:11:02 GMT
I like how serious DC is. It's the one really great thing about it. It's so dark. Marvel is too colourful and wacky. Traditionally it's viewed as the other way around, isn't it? And Marvel's last big stories involved a superhero civil war that forced everyone to be an outlaw or government employee, the Hulk come down to beat to death those who think betrayed him only to fall at the end, two massive genocidal wars in space, and currently violent invasion and mass betrayal by extremist aliens. Plus, stuff like Punisher MAX, Warren Ellis on Thunderbolts, Avengers: The Initiative, The Ultimates and so forth. I did say I know Marvel can be dark Punisher I read a lot, but that's about it so I suppose I can't really comment. Like I said earlier, I tried reading Civil War but got lost in a backlog of continuity. DC is very very dark though. Batman being the obvious example but also Green Arrow, the JLA storyline Identity Crisis, and suchlike. I can't really think of much in the DC world that is light tbh except Plastic Man and Booster Gold but even Booster Gold has taken on a serious tone. Blue Beetle's death and Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord is another example. Of course my presumption Marvel is wacky and light is just on what I've read which is admittedly not much so I'd be happy to read more darker and serious Marvel stories.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jul 6, 2008 14:11:47 GMT
It's a bit hard to view Marvel as the whacky light place when three of its earliest icons were:
* Four explorers transformed, one of whom is permanently trapped as an ugly monster who often raged at and turned on the others, and their first public outing scared everyone
* A weapons scientist who transforms into a dangerous monster
* A high school outcast who lets his arrogance swell and thus allowed a crook to escape who would then murder his father-figure, and he is often stuck in poverty & a social outcast in both guises
And then there's their Golden Age characters who included an android that everyone was scared of because it burnt everything around it and a warrior from Atlantis who declares war on humanity.
|
|
|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 6, 2008 15:18:13 GMT
It's a bit hard to view Marvel as the whacky light place when three of its earliest icons were: * Four explorers transformed, one of whom is permanently trapped as an ugly monster who often raged at and turned on the others, and their first public outing scared everyone * A weapons scientist who transforms into a dangerous monster * A high school outcast who lets his arrogance swell and thus allowed a crook to escape who would then murder his father-figure, and he is often stuck in poverty & a social outcast in both guises And then there's their Golden Age characters who included an android that everyone was scared of because it burnt everything around it and a warrior from Atlantis who declares war on humanity. Point taken. I concede the debate. Your knowledge far outweighs mine, I would still say DC is much darker though but obviously I'd have to read more Marvel for that statement to be a fair one.
|
|
|
Post by The Shad on Jul 6, 2008 15:25:01 GMT
Also, both Squadron Supreme series (in the second, they had versions of the JLA, including a brainwashed Superman, racist Batman, nekkid Wonder Woman, schizo Green Lantern and more) were probably the darkest comics produced by Marvel, what with the Utopia Project and such.
Really gotta pick up the new Squadron Supreme TPB.
God I love that series.
|
|
|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 6, 2008 15:26:48 GMT
Also, both Squadron Supreme series (in the second, they had versions of the JLA, including a brainwashed Superman, racist Batman, nekkid Wonder Woman, schizo Green Lantern and more) were probably the darkest comics produced by Marvel, what with the Utopia Project and such. Really gotta pick up the new Squadron Supreme TPB. God I love that series. There was a Marvel produced comic with DC characters?
|
|
|
Post by The Shad on Jul 6, 2008 15:34:27 GMT
No, they were originally parodies (and DC had the Angors, so its all fair) who started off as super villians. Then an alternate version appeared, who were heroes.
Then Mark Gruenwald wrote the Utopia Project, where their version of Superman and most of the JLA/Squadron Supreme decided to take over the world.
Then it was rebooted as Supreme Power (essentially Ultimate JLA) where Superman/Hyperion is kidnapped and raised as a child of the US government hours after he crashes down in a cornfield.
Pick it up, seriously. Probably one of the best comics of the past decade.
|
|
|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 6, 2008 17:09:07 GMT
Just as well I got paid. So as well as my usual fix of Batman and Detective I'm buying Squadron Supreme and Avengers vol 1. Cool. Kinda makes me glad there's at least one good comic out there that's free
|
|
|
Post by The Shad on Jul 6, 2008 22:47:08 GMT
You won't regret it.
And if you do, I'll eat my hardcover.
that was a lie
|
|
Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
|
Post by Tom on Jul 7, 2008 12:39:14 GMT
After he died, writer Mark Gruenwald had his own ashes mixed into the paper used in one print run of the Squadron Supreme paperback.
A resounding ew.
|
|
|
Post by The Shad on Jul 7, 2008 16:47:44 GMT
Yeah, there's about 6,000 such paperbacks.
Gotta admit, thats one hell of a way to be remembered.
|
|
|
Post by The Shad on Jul 15, 2008 19:51:44 GMT
Micheal Turner has died.Respect.
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Jul 19, 2008 14:57:06 GMT
I recently obtained the two Young Avengers TPBs. Quite fun, and very similar to the animated Teen Titans. As a matter of fact, I'd say they're more similar to the animated Titans than the actual Teen Titans themselves are.
I also got X-Men vs. Apocalypse: The Twelve. Not bad, and worth it for the Alan Davis art, but kinda disappointing that it ends with the appearance of Cyclopalypse and a "Next time..." logo. I probably should've spent my money on the first Age of Apocalypse: The Complete Epic book.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jul 19, 2008 15:16:26 GMT
I'd say they're more similar to the animated Titans than the actual Teen Titans themselves are. Bit of an own goal, having a cartoon based on your comic that isn't actually like that comic though does have similarities to the line-up from the mid-80s.
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Jul 19, 2008 16:27:46 GMT
That said, I'm given to believe that Geoff Johns was influenced quite a bit by the series. I think that his foreword to the third TPB said something to that effect.
|
|
|
Post by Baron Canier on Jul 19, 2008 21:17:53 GMT
DC pretty much shot itself in the foot in the way of getting new readers by introducing the Multiverse and constantly changing it's continuity but that all sorted itself with Crisis On Infinite Earth and Infinite Crisis. The first Crisis discarded the multiverse: good move. The second one brought it back. DC's problem is that it takes its silly characters and concepts way too seriously. everything has to be so realistic in a world where an alien flies around cities in his underwear and a grown man dresses up as a bat every night to fight crime. and let's go overboard with the interconnectivity while we're at it (which too many writers and editors forget, it was only ever meant to be fun, never a burden). You just put the nail into a coma. Well done, sir.
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Aug 11, 2008 19:54:30 GMT
I've been having a look at League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier on amazon. It's received a few poor reviews from what I can see, but I nevertheless ask here if anyone's read it, and if so, is it any good?
|
|
|
Post by Pombar on Aug 11, 2008 20:16:22 GMT
It's tied with the follow up to Marvel 1602 in my mind for the award of "how did they even manage it!?" bad comics out of established brilliant settings and characters.
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Aug 11, 2008 20:43:36 GMT
Is this League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as a whole that you refer to, or is it just Black Dossier?
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Aug 15, 2008 20:28:36 GMT
I recently got Deadpool Vs Marvel Universe and Watchmen.
Deadpool was fun to read. A great hero that shows that charisma isn't about your looks its about your awesome.
Watchmen was one in several choices (Deadpool (cant remember the name of it), Arkham Asylum, V for Vendetta, The Injustice League, Batman Vs Two Face, Trinity, Batman: Joker's last Laugh and Joker: Greatest stories ever told)
I went for Watchmen, because my friend said it was good, I saw a documentary on comics on BBC2 and Alan Moore was on it talking about Watchmen and it sounded good.
And it is. Bloody good. Sucked me in for hours. I cried man tears. MAN TEARS.
Also, I think I know why I'm going for DC a bit more than Marvel. DC is cheaper... >_>
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Aug 17, 2008 16:20:23 GMT
I'm re-reading Identity Crisis, written by Brad Meltzer and written by Rags Morales. They should collaborate on stuff like this far more often.
|
|
|
Post by Pombar on Aug 20, 2008 17:08:52 GMT
I think everyone should read this because I'm a snob and like it when webcomics vary between immensely wordy and action-packed. Also gong fu and ye olde china and taking itself seriously while still being humourous and the art style is sublime. So there.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Aug 20, 2008 17:23:50 GMT
Ultimate Human is quite enjoyable.
That is all.
|
|
JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
|
Post by JJ on Aug 20, 2008 17:55:04 GMT
I've fancied giving Zenescope's 'Grimm Fairy Tales' series a go for a while now, and finally got round to it. As big a cliche as it is, I love the idea of taking established fairytale stories and making them all dark and stuff. It's been done a million times before, but still the concept interests me. I'm really liking the series from what I've read, but IMO it didn't really get off the ground properly until I read the 'Return to Wonderland' series. It's easily the darkest, most adult interpretation of Alice in Wonderland I've ever seen, with hardcore violence, swearing, nudity, drug references, attempted rape, murder, child molestation and themes of suicide and depression. Needless to say I loved it, especially the pacing that was like a good horror film. And I'll never look at the Cheshire Cat the same way again... It felt a lot like essential emo reading-material at times, and I didn't need all the Matrix quotes, but apart from that, I recommend it.
|
|