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Post by Arch on Aug 27, 2010 10:32:20 GMT
Long list, ho!
I don't know if this has been done before, I mean there's been loads of questions on favourite Sonic stories, but never mind. Knuckles stories were always some of my favourites and the comic never seemed the same when the focus shifted to Tails and Amy and their wacky adventures with random nutters.
So pick your favourite echidna adventure and, so help me, you'd better explain your vote!
if you want
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A quick recap, if you need it:
Carnival Night: The Marxio Brothers build the Carnival Night Zone on the Floating Island and convince Knuckles to let them stay.
Knuckles vs the Cybernik: Knuckles mistakes Shortfuse for a Badnik and there's a fight and stuff.
Total Chaotix: Knuckles accidentally gets stuck in the Special Zone and meets the Chaotix Crew. Debuts for them, the Brotherhood of Metallix and Nack the Weasel.
The Homecoming: Doctor Zachary returns to the Floating Island, seemingly the first of Knuckles' kind to do so. Proceeds to nearly destroy it.
The Graveyard: Knuckles takes an acid trip and starts fighting ghosts of Kohenyu deceased for thousands of years. All for a new Master Emerald.
New Master Emerald: The new Emerald is ready, but Knuckles is interrupted by a giant robot head shooting at him.
The Ghost Ship: Captain Plunder arrives on the island inivited and drags Knuckles on a search for the Idol of Tantaragor.
Troubled Waters: On his way home, Knuckles fights Captain Claw in the middle of the ocean.
Village of the Damned: Knuckles stumbles across a village hypnotised by an old goat, insisting on a sacrifice.
The Good, The Bad and the Echidna: Knuckles then stumbles into the Wild West, where he is accused of attempting to kill 'Rooster'.
Roots: A peaceful protest in Metropolis City leads to Knuckles fighting his way through trees. Debut of Ebony the Cat (and Pyjamas).
Victims: Knuckles finally returns home, to find that Zachary and Robotnik have captured all of the Emerald Hill folk.
Loose Ends: With Robotnik gone and the people saved, Knuckles returns them back to their homes.
On The Run: Porker accidentally drags Knuckles with him to the Special Zone, where Porker is accused of being a criminal.
The Take-Over: Four highly-skilled thieves get their way around Knuckles on their quest to steal the island's riches.
New Year Twister: Sonic and Tails team up to make sure Knuckles is still ready for any trouble.
Reunion: The Floating Island is pulled out of the sea and Knuckles is reunited with another echidna, Tikal, but she loses her memories.
Trouble in Paradise: Big the Cat sees Rouge steal Porker and the Chaos Emeralds (I think).
Horror on the Haunted Hill: Rouge interrogates Porker and the heroes catch a train.
Solitary: With Zachary captive, Knuckles struggles to listen to Tikal's premonitions.
Vichama is Coming Home: Knuckles is killed by the God of Death, but is brought back to life (eventually).
The Prisoner: Knuckles loses his temper and breaks Zachary out of prison. It's all a plan, though, to find out where Zachary goes.
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Phew, you probably didn't need all that... Left out his part in The Final Victory, The Battle for Mobius and Tails' The Revenge of Trogg, because they're parts of adventures (or not his at all, really).
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Post by The Shad on Aug 27, 2010 11:12:03 GMT
Carnival Night Conspiracy.
Excellent art, great story, just great.
Also, The Revenge of Trogg, because [censored] yeah, Revenge of Trogg.
edit-Also also, Village of the Damned.
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Post by Retro on Aug 27, 2010 13:15:30 GMT
Carnival Night Conspiracy.
Loaded with great visual elements, funny writing and some absolutely brilliant action sequences against rides, troopers, worker bots and the Marxio's colossal gunship at the end.
Not to mention it holds Knuckles' most epic moment in the entire comic. Punching an entire zone off the island!
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Aug 27, 2010 13:54:22 GMT
So many good 'uns there. I was tempted to say The Good, The Bad and The Echidna, but in the end I picked Carnival Night Conspiracy. The writing's sharp, the art's great and it has Knuckles' Crowning Moment of Awesome in Any Media Ever.
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 27, 2010 14:42:58 GMT
The Take-Over pips it for me. It was in the second issue of the comic I'd ever read, and it taught me the difference between the words takeover and overtake. Re-reading it, I love the dynamic - the four villains beat Knuckles using cheap-shots and knockbacks, and never truly beat him. It's a good way for one of the characters with the most physical prowess to be bested and given the runaround for a good while, without losing face. The art was top-notch as well - Dobbyn is seriously on a par with Elson for me, albeit for completely different reasons. Finally, I love the panel after Knuckles is nearly knocked off the edge of the island by bats. The pathetic look really made me laugh, and feel sorry for him at the same time.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 27, 2010 19:06:37 GMT
The Homecoming. It introduces Zachary and those awesome guardian robots (I think), and it has Dobbyn's gorgeous textured artwork. Carnival Night Conspiracy is good, but I've always preferred Dobbyn's Knuckles stories. Wobbly on occasion, but generally lovely, atmospheric use of colour.
Elson's great n' all. Don't get me wrong.
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Post by Retro on Aug 27, 2010 19:11:11 GMT
Mm, while I do like Carnival Night's artwork. I have oft said I consider Dobbyn's work hands down the best in the entire comic. Which considering the other artist is Richard smegging Elson is high praise indeed.
Ye gods I miss art like that appearing every other week from those two...
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Post by Lost Mercenary on Aug 27, 2010 20:58:50 GMT
The Graveyard
Not only does Knuckles gets a sweet new poncho but he is fighting undead dinosaurs and manages to win them over not through force but through his refusal to commit the final act of genocide that his people had caused. Almost Captain Kirkish in a weird sort of way.
Just a great story of taking responsibilty for the sins of the father in my opinion and probably Knuckles' best outing.
Did I mention that I LOVED the poncho!!!
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 27, 2010 21:07:21 GMT
^ Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Love that one.
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Post by chrisengland8 on Aug 27, 2010 21:25:58 GMT
The Homecoming; Mainly cause I like Zachary
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Post by Baron Canier on Aug 27, 2010 21:54:31 GMT
Almost Captain Kirkish in a weird sort of way. I don't recall any rampant sex in that story.
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Post by Balls on Aug 28, 2010 1:03:12 GMT
Mm, while I do like Carnival Night's artwork. I have oft said I consider Dobbyn's work hands down the best in the entire comic. Which considering the other artist is Richard smegging Elson is high praise indeed. Ye gods I miss art like that appearing every other week from those two... See, I disagree. I probably prefer Dobyn as an artist, but I feel Elson was just so much more suited to Sonic art. I really, really love Dobyn's art style and he's one of my biggest inspirations in my art, but he, in my eyes at least, didn't fit STC too well at all.
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Post by Retro on Aug 28, 2010 1:14:07 GMT
Dobbyn very rarely got anyone but Knuckles really to toy with. My favourite stories were the Captain Plunder ones, where it let Dobbyn's artistic flair really let loose. Thats where the love stems from, when he was allowed to break the pattern.
Elson did better Sonic characters, yes, but Dobbyn's strips overall had a wonderous detail, design, background and "alternate" character design I felt.
I suppose I don't even have to state thats all in opinion etc
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Post by Arch on Aug 28, 2010 9:40:20 GMT
I'm not a huge fan of the way Dobbyn drew Chaotix. Something just doesn't sit right with me, so it put me off On The Run a little bit (and ruined the last Chaotix story). Knuckles, however, he looks really good Dobbyned. The Chaos Emeralds, too.
Anyway, my favourite's Total Chaotix. The introduction of my favourite group of characters, lots of stuff with Metallix, Elson art, comes straight after the Death Egg stories, etc.
I do really like The Take-Over, though.
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Post by electricashes on Aug 28, 2010 15:13:11 GMT
Based solely on memory my favourite Knuckles story would have to be Carnival Night Conspiracy. My favourite moments in that strip were the white knuckled ride, Knuckles at a desk and of course the way Knuckles finally got rid of the zone.
Village of the Damned was a close second but I guess wasn’t quite as memorable.
Of course my real favourite was Revenge of Trogg but it’s doesn’t appear to be on the list (probably because it’s more of a Tails story).
On the Run is also a favourite of mine but didn’t get my vote because what I liked about it had little to do with Knuckles and more to do with Chaotix.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Aug 28, 2010 21:40:08 GMT
Total Chaotix for me. Knuckles, Metallix & Chaotix, together, in the same story was always going to be a winner.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 29, 2010 9:48:57 GMT
I must admit, I can't remember some of the STC-O Knuckles stories though I also think, if we're honest, we're all going to be voting for the original ones anyway. Knuckles is a bit of an arse in STC-O though, isn't he?
I'm giving it to Total Chaotix, but here's an in-depth look:
Carnival Night Conspiracy is great, the Marxios are top notch villains even if you hadn't read their first story (which, at the time, I hadn't), the action is wonderful and the art is lovely. Knuckles vs. The Cybernik is a pretty pointless filler story, the art isn't special (and sometimes borders on naff) and it's practically identical to every "good guy misunderstanding battle" story ever written. Forgettable. Total Chaotix has amazing art, an awesome story, some great fights and manages to introduce a shedload of new characters without causing any pacing issues. All this while setting up a larger story arc in the Sonic strip. The Homecoming is in my top three, I think. Zachary is a brilliant villain and the twist that he was a bad guy was great at the time. On a related note, I loved how STC never featured any more echidnae in the present day timeline, Archie ruined Knuckles' backstory very early on by introducing his family and friends. The Graveyard was, I thought, a good look into the echidna people, though definitely the weakest chapter in the "New Master Emerald" trilogy (The Homecoming being the first chapter). The Kohenyu do seem to let Knuckles go a little easily; I think, more realistically, they'd have killed him anyway, but that doesn't happen to main characters in licensed kid's comics so it's entirely forgivable. New Master Emerald was a nice little one-shot, a cool story that properly introduced the robot guardians. Nothing groundbreaking, but a good, solid story. The Ghost Ship is a great Plunder story where Knuckles is essentially just along for the ride. That's actually a good dynamic to have for a change, given he's normally the main focus in some extremely character-light stories. Troubled Waters was a fun story with a villain who's actually quite Stringer-esque- someone who's a bit crap but has control over Robotnik's tech. Not too memorable but entirely inoffensive. Village of the Damned gets bonus points for getting the word "damn" into a kids' comic on numerous occassions. It's also a pretty great story, if a little familiar. The ending is marvellous- Knuckles is rendered completely impotent because he knows he has to do the right thing, which is let Robotnik live and, brilliantly, Robotnik absolutely knows he has the psychological upper hand. Things like that are why Kitching's scary Robotnik will always be better than Stringer's goofy Robotnik (not a dig at Lew, you understand). The Good, The Bad and the Echidna is a pretty amusing story, with a good villain, a neat concept and also manages to brilliantly flesh out a whole new part of Mobius. Plus, it's good to see for once a villain get his just desserts. I'm not saying they should all have died a gruesome death, but it's very refreshing in a comic where the baddies always seem to escape or fall off a cliff in a shroud of fog etc. Roots isn't a massively memorable story in my opinion, though introducing Ebony and Pyjamas is something that would have impact on Super Sonic strips down the line, so it's still important. I also like how Kitching didn't just go for a twee happy ending and it ends on a pretty ambiguous note. Victims is one I have a little difficulty remembering and, in fairness, that's understandable considering its purpose- fill in the gap between the previous story and issue 100. Loose Ends is a story that needed telling post-100 and Kitching did so very well indeed. Not a hugely important story, but one that's well told. On The Run is really a Porker story and a bloody great one it is too. I always loved when the sidekicks would get expanded upon. It seems Nigel favoured Porker while Lew went with Johnny more often and, to be honest, I think Nigel's interpretation was far more interesting (Johnny was a pretty dull action hero and it's actually a huge shame the Agent X storyline had such a gigantic cop-out ending). I love the ending to this story. Oh, and, yes, it creates a continuity problem, but who bloody cares, eh? The Take-Over is absolutely awesome. My second favourite Knuckles story and a massive, massive shame it's the last Knuckles strip in the print comic. I think it's a total shame the back-up strips couldn't have alternated between Sonic's three friends once the reprints came along and instead we had a dozen inconsequential Tails and Amy strips. I'm absolutely not intending to sound bitter about Lew's work, do bear in mind I loved it. But I think cutting the Knuckles strips was a mistake that affected the comic tonally as Knuckles was always afforded adventures that were a bit cleverer or darker than the other main characters (excepting the major Sonic plot lines, that is). New Year Twister (w/ Tails) was completely forgettable and, truth be known, a bit arse. "Sonic and Tails Behave Like Absolute [censored]s" would be a more apt name for this one. Again, I'm siding with Nigel rather heavily here (it's difficult not to when he wrote all the Knuckles stories except this one and "vs. The Cybernik") but this was [censored] and I think we all know it. Sonic is almost out of character here in his [censored]tery. Reunion is a good story, though I feel Ebony was shoehorned in there as a plot convenient character (it doesn't help she disappears right after and only just showed up again in #252) and Knuckles is, for some reason, completely immature. I know, I know, Knuckles has yearned for the secrets of his past for so long. But since meeting Sonic, he's become a hero first and foremost, so it's very unusual to see him acting so selfishly (and if you want to couple it with him bursting into tears a few stories back in the print comic, it makes one worry about his character a little bit). I'm afraid I don't remember Trouble in Paradise, Horror on the Haunted Hill or Solitary at all. It's been a long time since I read them. Vichama Is Coming Home is a great story. The art is dazzling, some of STC-O's finest. The downsides include a deus ex machina, a villain who turns into a Cockney and, bizarrely, becomes too stupid to live at the end (why didn't he just kill Knuckles a second time?). The Prisoner is a good story with a neat set-up for further adventures. There are two things I ask of the team: 1) please don't forget about the ending to this story like you seem to have forgotten Chaotix talking about super secret blueprints and files; and 2) for the love of God, don't have Zachary lead Knuckles to a city filled with echidnae.
Also, you left these off the list from the Knock-Out Special:
Traitor of the Lost Pyramid is a pretty great Chaotix story, with the return of Nack and the all-important debut of his shrink/growth technology. Jake's Story has an inexcusably poor ending and also makes Knuckles look quite inept at rescue missions. Reflections is a good concept, but it's very familiar and, to be honest, doesn't seem like a Knuckles story at all. And it ends on a pun, which is very bizarre for Nigel.
The Knock-Out Special's a bit weak, really. That said, Nigel had to write three whole stories (including what was essentially a two-parter) for this special, plus another two-parter for the Sonic special, plus whatever bonus material he wrote for both (I seem to recall him saying the 1994 Sonic special was written practically entirely by him) on top of whatever writing duties he had for the fortnightly comic at the time so if the two "back-up" strips aren't very good, I do think they can be excused a little on the grounds that they at least aren't terrible.
All in all, Knuckles was probably the second best series in STC, second only to Sonic. It was a massive, massive shame (and a huge mistake, judging by the size of his fanbase) when his stories were cut.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Aug 30, 2010 22:02:25 GMT
Hmm... I'm not too sure about Knuckles stories, as I am about the Sonic ones. I liked the mini-arc of his adventures trying to get that chest full of scrolls back to the Floating Island, but I also quite liked the Zachary arc. I remember at the time wondering what he was going to do and his comeback form is kinda gruesome. I still don't get his game even now... what the heck is he trying to do? Kill Knuckles out of revenge? Is he genuinely trying to "train" him as implied in STCO? Is he an old, degenerate clone of Knuckles? Is he the original Knuckles?! Geez... he is one badass baddie!
So yeah, pointless, under-thought conclusion of the day is I think the Zachary ones are my favourite Knuckles stories...
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Post by projectzuel on Aug 30, 2010 22:25:11 GMT
So many great Knuckles stories came about and the fact that Dobbyn drew him the most means I got really acustemed to seeing Knuckles in his art style.
It's a hard to choose but I have to say 'Village of the Damned'. Dobbyn's expert use of painted colour leads to a very atmospheric and also errie story. It was a dark tale which ended in a fantastic manner; Robotnik himself laughing at the knowledge that even when backed into a corner Knuckles can't do anything to him. He even goats Knuckles to kill him, naturally knowing the echidna couldn't possibly do it.
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Post by Lost Mercenary on Aug 30, 2010 23:04:08 GMT
Is he an old, degenerate clone of Knuckles? Is he the original Knuckles?! Geez... he is one badass baddie! Why is this the first time i'm hearing this theory? It's a damned awesome concept!!!!
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Post by Nigel Kitching on Aug 31, 2010 13:34:08 GMT
"Jake's Story has an inexcusably poor ending and also makes Knuckles look quite inept at rescue missions. Reflections is a good concept, but it's very familiar and, to be honest, doesn't seem like a Knuckles story at all. And it ends on a pun, which is very bizarre for Nigel."
In the script this ends with Knuckles saying "Oh never mind, it was nothing important..."
What does the printed version say? Looks like I was rewritten by the editor again.
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Post by Arch on Aug 31, 2010 13:43:00 GMT
"Jake's Story has an inexcusably poor ending and also makes Knuckles look quite inept at rescue missions. Reflections is a good concept, but it's very familiar and, to be honest, doesn't seem like a Knuckles story at all. And it ends on a pun, which is very bizarre for Nigel." In the script this ends with Knuckles saying "Oh never mind, it was nothing important..." What does the printed version say? Looks like I was rewritten by the editor again. It's "Reflections" that finishes on the pun. After smashing the mirror, Knuckles says "that would have looked cracking in my bedroom."
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Post by Nigel Kitching on Aug 31, 2010 14:34:05 GMT
"Jake's Story has an inexcusably poor ending and also makes Knuckles look quite inept at rescue missions. Reflections is a good concept, but it's very familiar and, to be honest, doesn't seem like a Knuckles story at all. And it ends on a pun, which is very bizarre for Nigel." In the script this ends with Knuckles saying "Oh never mind, it was nothing important..." What does the printed version say? Looks like I was rewritten by the editor again. It's "Reflections" that finishes on the pun. After smashing the mirror, Knuckles says "that would have looked cracking in my bedroom." Well in that case the script said: "Pity... that mirror would have looked really good in my bedroom!" There was a time when I didn't read the scripts when they were printed because I couldn't bear the editorial changes. If there is a pun or something odd then it may well be that I didn't write it. One day I'll let everyone see some of the original scripts to compare to the stories where my writing was changed significantly.
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Post by Beeth on Aug 31, 2010 18:16:26 GMT
Well in that case the script said: "Pity... that mirror would have looked really good in my bedroom!" There was a time when I didn't read the scripts when they were printed because I couldn't bear the editorial changes. If there is a pun or something odd then it may well be that I didn't write it. One day I'll let everyone see some of the original scripts to compare to the stories where my writing was changed significantly. It makes sense, but it's understandable to be a little bit offended in the editing of your writing, particularly if, as it seems to be coming across, you weren't informed of said changes. It all depends on the manner in which it's been edited really; some subtle changes in the scripts to add a pun here or there (providing the scenario isn't too serious, otherwise it would be quite jarring), or perhaps make brief word changes to lines that might be of an unnecessary length, that's understandable. Anything bigger than that, it may get to the point where meanings to certain cuts of dialogue, maybe even the story as a whole, are changed. As such, the author's original intentions may be lost on the cutting room floor as it were, and it could lead to misinterpretations of the situation and characters. I once sent in a letter to Teletext which was printed, but edited heavily for space reasons. As such, I felt the meaning I intended was lost and ultimately got a bit of backlash for it. But given that they reserved the right to use and edit my words as they saw fit, I couldn't really complain, since they didn't misquote me or anything. Point is, I see where you're coming from on the editorial front. If you do happen to discover instances of your intentions being notably changed, I would be interested to see them.
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Aug 31, 2010 18:32:13 GMT
I don't mind that change, Knuckles was making a joke anyway, the edit just accentuates it (and makes it a slightly tighter line, too).
Of course I'd probably feel differently if I was the one writing it...
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