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Post by ShayMay on Nov 14, 2011 23:13:28 GMT
-The endorsement of necrophilia and bestiality. Seriously, where the HECK did that romance come from, and why didn't Amy eat Elise's face in that scene? Now, I don't think this was quite an endorsement of the above things. To me, it came across as more... fairytale-esque - using a kiss to awaken the deid person. It was still tripe, and completely out of place, but I don't think it was quite as objectionable ethically as people make out.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 14, 2011 23:24:25 GMT
Now, I don't think this was quite an endorsement of the above things. To me, it came across as more... fairytale-esque - using a kiss to awaken the deid person. It was still tripe, and completely out of place, but I don't think it was quite as objectionable ethically as people make out. Oh I know they didn't actually endorse such a thing; I just have a taste in exaggeration. Indeed, fairy tale-esque, but the kiss is supposed to be delivered by your true love, not the girl you just met several days ago. (Well no, that usually is the girl you met several days ago... gah) Very out of place either way though! This not touching my feelings on couplings in games of course; I could write an essay on that. But yes, cringeworthy. Very so. That and the complete mess that was the time travel. I'll just tie this in to STCO - I am very glad at how Silver's backstory was altered. At least this way it's not a total mess, plus I'm hoping he's not a plot conveniently naive person. ( "Oh hi strange guy with slits for eyes and menacing voice. I'll totally believe you Sonic's the creature that will destroy us all and kill him! :3" ) Regarding Generations, it does confuse me. The Time Eater apparently briefly restored Sonic 06 to the timeline, since the Iblis spawn are still around in Crisis City. We can only hope with its defeat that 06 has returned to that "it never happened yet everyone sort of remembers it" state.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Nov 15, 2011 15:21:51 GMT
WHAT?! And where exactely do you put Sonic Cd which is sort of the best!? It's an awsome plot devise........IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT!! -_-" -The endorsement of necrophilia and bestiality. Seriously, where the HECK did that romance come from, and why didn't Amy eat Elise's face in that scene? Now, I don't think this was quite an endorsement of the above things. To me, it came across as more... fairytale-esque - using a kiss to awaken the deid person. It was still tripe, and completely out of place, but I don't think it was quite as objectionable ethically as people make out. that and also it really would have been diseducational to show two girls actually fighting over a boy....(hedgehog >_> which may work for Amy but for Elise a bit less.....) in the game there is a winning "female solidarity" instead of "predominance". Which is really better, really. Amy hating Elise for saving her love just because she kissed him would have been compleatly out of place......then again EVERYTHING is out of place so just forget it.... I think you could see amy's jelousy as a devise for a silly and funny seen which basically plays on misunderstanding....just like those old movies of the 50' rather than a real rage. ....Kncukles in Generations asks what we've been wondering for all these years: "Have you gained weight?!" .....Classic S. touches his stomach with a sad face! ^_^ ;D ;D
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 15, 2011 15:35:06 GMT
WHAT?! And where exactely do you put Sonic Cd which is sort of the best!? It's an awsome plot devise........IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE IT!! -_-" Most do not. It generally ends up creating some ridiculous paradox. The only time travelling to the past makes sense is if alternate dimensions are involved. Otherwise, it quickly enters the realm of insanity. As for CD being the best... no comment. He quickly goes to a "huh? o.o" expression after that. I presume this is because Sega has decided Sonic isn't allowed to have a full spectrum of emotions so remedied their mistake. It's true - Sonic isn't allowed to cry. They're very authoritarian on this. It's one of their invisible rules.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Nov 15, 2011 15:40:04 GMT
...could you please use an other word than "fascist"? it's still a bit of a burning point. still I don't see anything bad with having a few extra Kg till you hit your growing point. ;D It's abit of a dilemma for most Teens! XD BUT HOW!?
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Post by ShayMay on Nov 15, 2011 15:44:00 GMT
Time travel is amazing. You've obviously never seen Doctor Who. Also, some of the best of STC's arcs featured time travel - the Sonic Terminator, the Brotherhood of Metallix, the Chaos Saga, Robotnik Reigns Supreme, etc.
And CD isn't the best. You cannot beat 3K. I'm sorry. CD comes close, but 3K is perfection itself.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 15, 2011 15:44:58 GMT
...could you please use an other word than "fascist"? it's still a bit of a burning point. I use "fascist" regularly to describe excessive rules, as do most of my peers. But, very well, changed to "authoritarian." Not the same ring, but... I never cared for it(not enough to finish it, anyway, unlike the classic 3). I like SA2 the best. Everyone has their own personal favorite. If we got into that, it would last forever and just leave everyone steaming mad; it's about as fruitful as a discussion on religion or politics. That is, not at all. Knowing just how many variations in opinion there are, that's one area Generations excelled in - it seemed to be a good compromise between the many fighting blocs. Time travel is amazing. You've obviously never seen Doctor Who. I am American, you know. XD My primary experiences with time travel are the Terminator series. Oh, I know. Perhaps I should reword my statement - time travel is very confusing and generally shouldn't be touched, but can work well if done properly. ...usually. There's so many things that can go wrong with it, however, that it's generally a bad idea. But I suppose that's the whole point of fiction though - we can break the rules.
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Post by ShayMay on Nov 15, 2011 15:56:14 GMT
Yeah, definitely - if handled sloppily, Time Travel is the most prone to backfiring on you. Although from what I've heard, T1 and T2 did it excellently. Sonic CD did it perfectly for a video game, though. It translated the concept and story perfectly; nothing was explained or shoved down your throat, it was all communicated both aesthetically and through the gameplay, with incredible results. And again, no. Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the best Sonic game. It is FACT.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 15, 2011 16:01:16 GMT
Yeah, definitely - if handled sloppily, Time Travel is the most prone to backfiring on you. Although from what I've heard, T1 and T2 did it excellently. Long story short, it created grandfather paradoxes, two in fact. The bad guy(A supercomputer), on the verge of defeat by the good guy(a human). So, it sent an assassin back in time to kill the good guy's mother. In turn, that good guy in the future sent someone back in time to protect his mother. That protector ended up impregnating his mother, and fathering the good guy. Even better, when they destroy the assassin, the pieces of it were used to engineer what would eventually become the bad guy. So, the bad guy's actions created both itself and its own worst enemy. A bit convoluted from an outside perspective, but simple enough. I think that's the key in this case. It wasn't really delved into; it was just there. Time travel usually falls on its face because it makes itself complicated. Sonic CD's is VERY straightforward - if you go back in time, you can alter things so the future is good or bad. No real explanation, it's just kind of there. Nothing to strain your brain over.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Nov 15, 2011 18:36:35 GMT
and so mabe for all 3K was the best however in my heart CD is always first place! It had time travel, Metal to defeat in an epic race, beautiful opening and ending vids, Amy Rose and diffent things such as the evil machines in the past and gourges levels such as Stardust speedway, Quarz quadrant and Wacky workbench. Different kind of map even if it's the same level. race for the time change. And the first Sonic game to add the Time Attack mode. It was perfect to me! I mean even just the addition to the saga of Metal and Amy was enough to make it super....
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Post by Arch on Nov 15, 2011 18:39:09 GMT
Sometimes, time travel is excellent if you just don't think about the consequences. The STC strips mentioned actually have huge niggles in places (the mini Sonic stable loop springs to mind) but they're hugely enjoyable stories. I even like the '06 plot if I don't think about it (completely ignoring how the blue Emerald got lost in time).
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Post by The Shad on Nov 22, 2011 20:45:24 GMT
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Post by Devo DrakeFox on Nov 22, 2011 21:08:43 GMT
I LOL'd so hard at the sight of "Robotnik".
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 24, 2011 20:11:07 GMT
…oh my…
…just… beautiful… XD
This is why people who can remodel characters are awesome!
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Post by projectzuel on Nov 24, 2011 20:20:19 GMT
So Sonic Generations came out a day early on the 3DS at a games shop near my uni (as well as the new Kirby game for Wii) so even though I've spent too much on games this month I thought I'd buy it to see if it was better than the console version.
Verdict? Meh. Played through half of the game and the first 3 classic levels are cut and paste of the originals (cept the controls are worse) and later level designs aren't inspired and suffer from "stupid bottomless fall syndrom". Special stages are uninspired and too easy. I'll give a full verdict when I finish the game.
Music is still cool though.
Biggest question to myself now is why the hell didn't I buy Kirby instead?!
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Post by projectzuel on Nov 26, 2011 12:37:34 GMT
Ok, completed Sonic Generations 3DS so a quick review to get out of the way:
If Sonic Generations on the consoles is being praised in a large part due to the superlative presentation values what would happen if those points were swept away? You'd probably be left with something like the 3DS version. When a secondary game tries to mimic the cutscenes of it's bigger brother with character dialogue boxes and poorly animated (if animated at all) character models the immediate feeling that you've bought an inferior product becomes apparent. This is only further proved when you start playing.
The first three levels, when played as Classic Sonic are cut and paste of the original game levels; if there was any differences apparent they were so small as to not matter. It feels insulting. This is not helped by controls and character weight that makes transferring these environments a chore. Flip over to Modern Sonic and the levels feel influenced rather than copyed but this doesn't stop some irksome level design; boost at the start of Green Hill with finger shifting the control stick foward? Sorry you just crashed into a robot hovering in the air. Didn't boost on that straight on Emerald Coast? Sorry you just crashed into a robot you couldn't see. This type of punishing gameplay is also becomes further present in later classic levels too. Instead of rewarding the player for experiementing with different routes or doing instictive movements, the game often punishes you. Stupid bottemless pits anyone?
Complete both acts and you gain access to the special stage for a chance to earn a Chaos Emerald. These take the form of Sonic Heroes style races down a linear tunnel where you attempt to catch the Emerald before it reaches the goal. Collecting orbs and balloons gives you boost needed to collect the goods while you dodge bombs which stop your movement. The problem is that you often are traveling too fast to see bombs in time, especially on later stages were bombs can be placed erratically. To combensate the Emerald moves alarmingly slow meaning you'll always catch it. The result is that you feel frustrated from play and cheated when you catch the Emerald. You didn't earn it, you were given it.
Once you've completed all the stages in an era (classic, dreamcast and modern respectivly) you get the chance to play against your rival and boss. The rival encounters take the form of side-scrolling races in a similar manner to Sonic CD's Metal Sonic race except the levels aren't creative or engaging with the Shadow race being particually appalling. The angst hedgehog has a dendency to boost through you just when you land from a jump and once ahead will pelt you with chaos spears; logic would tell you to jump over them but try and he'll aim them at an uncanny accurate angle.
The full bosses vary from mildly enjoyable to frustrating affairs. The final boss is the most insipid. The Time Eater actually feels better then the console version at first, only because there's less confusing imagery and the controls a less sluggish. It's still surprisingly mundance because the attack patterns are easy to dodge and drawn out; until you get him to his last 3 bars of health. It's as if the developer realised how easy it was and thus in the 3D section the boss starts launching clocks where you have to weave between the hands; the controls which were great for making large, sweeping movements to collect rings are too cumbersome to confidently weave through the moving clock hands. There's nothing more frustrating then getting knocked back by the clock attack at point blank because you couldn't see it and having it repeat the process. It's simply not fun.
The game condenses it's gameplay into a mere 7 levels (14 acts) which are quickly completed. Missions are unlocked throughout the game and include speed runs and enemy destruction but don't hide the base problems at all. It's poorly executed game extention when you actually have to buy the majority of missions.
Sonic Generations 3DS takes all the frustrating points from it's console brother and amplifies them but lacks the presentation to hide behind. If punishes and misleads the player with confusing level design and cumbersome controls. Play the console versions instead as it's clearly the superior version.
5/10
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Post by Tom J on Dec 20, 2011 15:13:35 GMT
About halfway through the story now (Steam PC) and so far the game is good but hard to get particularly excited about. Perhaps it's down to the months and months of spoiling of everything I failed to avert my eyes from, cos the whole revisiting stuff from the past thing has evoked nothing in me.
All character interactions (as in cutscenes) so far have been [censored]ing painfully wooden. You'd think some interesting conversation would come up if you met your own goddamn self but apparently not.
Graphics are nice etc. though starting off my eyes were all FFUUU; lots of brightly-coloured high-detail stuff moving very fast in parallax left me feeling more like a mildly befuddled spectator than a player. To be fair tho I was a little tired.
Controls are reasonably tight. Drifting seems to actually have an effect now (contrast unleashed), and I haven't run into any major glitches or jarring inter-era discrepancies (that is classic sonic seems to play like classic sonic should).
So yeah, so far it's alright. Just not a particularly memorable experience yet.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Dec 22, 2011 2:39:31 GMT
To all who have yet to try it - make sure to go running on the water in the modern water stage. There's a pleasant surprise awaiting you! But yes. All sorts of hidden goodies to be found. There are some things you'd never know about if not for Sega's revealing everything. I understand the game is a remake of past stages, but, really... couldn't they have hid more? Even without the fans cracking the game early on, practically everything was revealed.
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Pinchetel
Big Time Boomer
...And together in failure.
Posts: 212
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Post by Pinchetel on Dec 22, 2011 11:59:25 GMT
To all who have yet to try it - make sure to go running on the water in the modern water stage. There's a pleasant surprise awaiting you! Protip; You'll die. I personally thought that it was nice that there were plenty of throwbacks within the stages, but there weren't many outside the stages that weren't Collection Room pieces.
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Post by Sam on Dec 22, 2011 17:18:26 GMT
Could you just put the "surprise" in a spoiler tag please? As I've ran on the water, and don't get it.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Dec 22, 2011 17:23:46 GMT
Im assuming the giant chopper that kills you if you goout of bounds.
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Post by Sam on Dec 22, 2011 18:01:06 GMT
Oh, that. Cheers John.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Dec 23, 2011 0:21:06 GMT
Yep, John got it right. I'm a horrible person. I personally thought that it was nice that there were plenty of throwbacks within the stages, but there weren't many outside the stages that weren't Collection Room pieces. I agree, I loved how they made sure to use the original enemies in each stage. Made it feel ever more like the stage, except with some modern re-imagining. What I disliked was how they didn't mix it up with boss battles. I personally would have found it epic if Classic Sonic and Shadow went at it. Old vs. new! I suppose the short length is a bit excuseable given the number of stages, though they should've amped up the difficulty. I honestly didn't die once until Planet Wisp.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Dec 27, 2011 7:33:53 GMT
You have just under 10 hours and 30 minutes to get Sonic Generations on Steam for £6.79
Yes Indeedy.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Dec 27, 2011 14:37:13 GMT
I know a lot of people who got it for Christmas only for Steam to announce that sale. If Steam had/has a motto, it would be/is "trollololololol!" This is why holiday sales are a love/hate thing.
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