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Post by The KKM on Apr 19, 2011 20:31:55 GMT
Damn, what a bunch of whiners! You realise Classic Sonic has been portrayed in 3D before now, right? I bet not even half as many people [censored]ed about how he looked in Sonic R or Sonic Fighters as they are now. The new one looks arse all like him. It's awful. Then stop being an arse and search for it in one of the MANY places you can find said concept art that isn't the Torrent itself. Have fun.
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Post by ShayMay on Apr 19, 2011 20:42:19 GMT
Stu's opinion differs from yours, KKM. Get over it.
I fail to see how he's been an arse.
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Post by madhair60 on Apr 19, 2011 20:46:46 GMT
Then stop being an arse and search for it in one of the MANY places you can find said concept art that isn't the Torrent itself. Have fun.I'm not interested, since I already know that I'm correct.
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Post by projectzuel on Apr 19, 2011 20:58:28 GMT
Then stop being an arse and search for it in one of the MANY places you can find said concept art that isn't the Torrent itself. Have fun.I'm not interested, since I already know that I'm correct. Thought I'd do myself no favours and actually jump into this heated "debate". Madhair may not be helping his own argument by putting himself in a position of arrogance but I can see where he's coming from. Partially. Classic Sonic looks somewhat strange but I really don't think I 3D model of a 2D sprite is going to come to fruition without aesthetic issues. The issue of maturity isn't to do with what one puts on their wall it's how one acts and reacts towards others. At least in this case. Anyway. Game looks interesting and I'll wait for some hands on previews before getting more subjective. Wouldn't want to make and arse of myself.
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Post by ShayMay on Apr 19, 2011 21:13:32 GMT
Right, I can see this getting silly. No more. I strongly suspect Stu's arrogance was feigned for comic effect. Thus, here's the deal: Mark, reserve that picture for real [censored]storms, Stu, don't call people immature on a Sonic forum of all places, KKM, let Stu and his idiosyncratic opinions be, and Marcus, don't add fuel to the fire. Also: Wouldn't want to make and arse of myself. (I'm kidding. <3)
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Apr 19, 2011 21:25:02 GMT
Hmm.. one of the best things about this new 3D model of Classic Sonic is; STC'S Christmas tree Sonic actually works!!!!
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Post by projectzuel on Apr 19, 2011 21:29:21 GMT
Right, I can see this getting silly. No more. I strongly suspect Stu's arrogance was feigned for comic effect. Thus, here's the deal: Mark, reserve that picture for real [censored]storms, Stu, don't call people immature on a Sonic forum of all places, KKM, let Stu and his idiosyncratic opinions be, and Marcus, don't add fuel to the fire. Also: Wouldn't want to make and arse of myself. (I'm kidding. <3) Deal, though I reserve the right to try and bring logic into arguments if I think it's gone [censored] storm crazy; I'll make a list of people this doesn't apply to. And ShayMay, don't worry I found my typo funny as hell and glad you pointed it out.
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 19, 2011 21:50:46 GMT
Yes, it does. You can't use the effects of the Laser, Drill, Frenzy, Hover or Cube (and its associated block puzzles) Wisps with normal Sonic. Thus, the majority of unique Colours-orientated platforming designs are no longer viable options. The effects of Rocket could maybe be done via a randomly placed cannon or somesuch. Spikes could perhaps be replicated in some way for ceilings, but not walls or its ability to build momentum whilst stuck to something. Without with Wisps to support it, you're more or less back to Unleashed territory. Stu, don't call people immature on a Sonic forum of all places He didn't. Someone else hurled a picture at him that read "GROW UP". He then pointed out the irony.
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Post by ShayMay on Apr 19, 2011 22:09:00 GMT
Yes, it does. You can't use the effects of the Laser, Drill, Frenzy, Hover or Cube (and its associated block puzzles) Wisps with normal Sonic. Thus, the majority of unique Colours-orientated platforming designs are no longer viable options. The platforming will be more difficult to pull off without the Wisps, certainly, but I don't feel it's impossible. It will, however, require them to be a bit more creative. Stuff like the aforementioned balloons, the moving springs from Colours, etc. would be viable options. But yeah, they're going to have a harder time of it without the Wisps, and I'm wanting to see how well they'll do. If you want to continue this, please do it in PMs. Cheers.
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Post by Nam on Apr 19, 2011 22:41:20 GMT
Yes, it does. You can't use the effects of the Laser, Drill, Frenzy, Hover or Cube (and its associated block puzzles) Wisps with normal Sonic. Thus, the majority of unique Colours-orientated platforming designs are no longer viable options. The effects of Rocket could maybe be done via a randomly placed cannon or somesuch. Spikes could perhaps be replicated in some way for ceilings, but not walls or its ability to build momentum whilst stuck to something. Without with Wisps to support it, you're more or less back to Unleashed territory. But no, not really. Sure, some of the stuff is undoable in the form that it was presented in Colours, but that doesn't mean the whole game can't be made up of platforming in some other form. Yes, lots of "hold right to win" is a pain, and you do need not just some jumping sections, but ideally some jumping puzzles, that require timing, observation, and a bit of skill to navigate. But this can be done without the Wisps, it has been done before, and it'll be done again. Whether or not Sonic Team manage it, remains to be seen, but I don't think not having the wisps is quite the loss of platforming you seem to assume it to be.
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infamatt
Boomer
Working Hard/Hardly Working
Posts: 56
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Post by infamatt on Apr 20, 2011 1:58:15 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmN0Z6GAfj0 in this interview (with spanish? subtitles lol) you can hear at a couple of points different music playing. Including the original Green Hill (which I guess is called Greenhill now from some of the screenshots ) on Classic Sonic's, so it looks likely that'll be the case, infamatt The following are from other websites, which you can see in the links anyway XD Huge artwork of both Sonics in recognisable poses. I like the way they didn't make classic Sonic furry too, and his curled ears are kind of cute though the lackof fur detailing makes his glove detailing seem odd to me. And this is GORGEOUS! I love the effect of wet stone too, I've not seen that much attention to detail before Cool! Thanks! I checked out the links. Things continue to look sweet for this game. I have no problem admitting that hearing the "Greenhills" music made me feel all fuzzy inside. Also, I checked out the Sonic Stadium a few minutes ago, and it seems that Classic Sonic is going to be mute!
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Post by Mark on Apr 20, 2011 10:11:25 GMT
They'll probably have to explain how he got his voice then, maybe Classic Sonic is shy.
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Post by Devo DrakeFox on Apr 20, 2011 10:18:18 GMT
I had a feeling they'd do that. That, or they'd hire Jaleel White to do Classic Sonic.
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 20, 2011 10:52:30 GMT
But this can be done without the Wisps, it has been done before, and it'll be done again. Whether or not Sonic Team manage it, remains to be seen, but I don't think not having the wisps is quite the loss of platforming you seem to assume it to be. Here's how it goes: Colours is a good game. It had a great execution of creative platforming that built upon the base provided by Unleashed. The game was brimming with variety, but - more importantly - it was done well. The Wisps bolstered the basic formula of "Daytime Unleashed" into something better. However, the Wisps are a one-shot deal (unless something contrived occurs in a future title to bring them back), which means that the very thing that made Colours uniquely enjoyable cannot be brought back, thus casting doubt on whether Sonic Team can still make an above-average title without using them as a crutch to improve the gameplay. It's a big loss because Colour's successful formula can't be exactly replicated in this title due to lack of Wisps. Some elements of some of the Wisps could be replicated through competent creativity, but this is Sonic Team we're dealing with... Granted, this is only a problem for the "Modern Sonic" element of the game. With Classic Sonic they just have to churn out some good level design. It seems that Classic Sonic is going to be mute! Thank [censored]ing [censored] for that.
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
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Post by Adamis on Apr 20, 2011 15:39:41 GMT
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 20, 2011 15:52:48 GMT
Love the sense of the depth.
I hope the levels still have branching paths.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Apr 20, 2011 16:15:23 GMT
I dunno, Modern Sonic's gameplay still looks like it sucks the big one. As you can probably guess I really, really dislike the Unleashed engine and it annoys me that it looks like they've reduced the gameplay back down to holding down the boost button to win again.
That said, some moments from Classic Sonic confuse me. He doesn't seem to jump as high as he should, and it looks like he's actually gaining momentum while he's going uphill. Those aspects just puzzled me rather than making me hate it, but the little things always add up.
I'll be the first to admit that my first impressions have been wrong on occasion; the demo of Sonic Colours I played at Summer of Sonic didn't do the finished product justice on reflection. The trouble is that my first impressions about any new Sonic game are usually right.
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 20, 2011 16:45:38 GMT
I dunno, Modern Sonic's gameplay still looks like it sucks the big one. As you can probably guess I really, really dislike the Unleashed engine and it annoys me that it looks like they've reduced the gameplay back down to holding down the boost button to win again. Unleashed's approach wasn't my favourite, but Colours demonstrated that you could wring a good formula out of it with a bit of polish. Assuming they get it right this time, anyway. The trailer made Modern Sonic's levels look kinda dull (gameplay-wise, that is. What with all the boosting. Visually it's quite nice), but it's more than likely due to Sega wanting to showcase the breakneck speeds you can reach. So long as they temper it with proper platforming etc., it could still be fun. The fact that this is actually happening is still sort of weird. I understand why they've done it, but it just reeks of creative bankruptcy. EDIT: Re-watched Adamis' trailer. I like the little touches. Classic Sonic's "end of level" animation on the signpost is cute, and Modern Sonic's poses during the "push buttons now!" part (with the giant fish Badnik) were nice and expressive. I also really like the depth and detail of the world that's on display. It's kind of like the approach in Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts; they decided to render older (cartoony) environments in greater detail, rather than trying to make things "realistic". This is "What if Sonic's world was real?" rather than "What if Sonic was in the real world?". It's a much better approach for something like Sonic. While it looks a tad cluttered, but I get a nice sense of personality from the level itself. One moment in particular I like is when the foliage parts and lets you see how vast the waterfall is, while there's a nonsensical cliff formation in the background. Delightful. Of course, all this is moot if it doesn't play well.
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Post by Alex on Apr 20, 2011 17:15:08 GMT
Haters gonna hate, but the gameplay in both modes in that video looked like a complete blast to me. People can sit and piss and moan all they like, but as far as I'm concerned, it looks like it'll be a game I'll really have fun playing. Quite looking forward to seeing more now.
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 20, 2011 17:35:13 GMT
I hope Classic Robotnik, assuming he shows up, behaves like he does in this short. Like a kind of maniacal, angry mime artist.
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Post by Devo DrakeFox on Apr 20, 2011 17:58:15 GMT
Haters gonna hate, but the gameplay in both modes in that video looked like a complete blast to me. People can sit and piss and moan all they like, but as far as I'm concerned, it looks like it'll be a game I'll really have fun playing. Quite looking forward to seeing more now. This. I love both the new Green Hill theme mixes (been wanting to hear a non-retro-y version for a long time) and the modernised Badniks are awesome (the ones I could see in detail). I'm guessing Robotnik will be mute as well? Or he'll at least have his Sonic CD chortle...
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Post by Beeth on Apr 20, 2011 18:36:49 GMT
Watched Adamis "Ach, so German, ya" gameplay short following an obviously dubbed film trailer. I like the look of it, I think I'll enjoy playing it when it comes out (the game, not the film, natürlich).
For something that hasn't been long announced it's looking incredibly polished and well put together. I reckon this'll be a fitting exhibit of the two great styles of the Sonic gameplay we're familiar with, both classic 2D platform and modern Unleashed/Colours styles, certainly suitable of an anniversary.
As per my earlier comment, it's nice to see that they're concentrating on exhibiting their gameplay more than going for a bizarre storyline, which the teaser trailer seemed to suggest (all trailers are misleading or ambiguous in that way, hence why I had no comment beforehand). I look forward to playing this.
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Post by Balls on Apr 20, 2011 18:49:03 GMT
I don't think people give Unleashed enough credit. It's not one of the best games I've ever played, but it showed potential in its formula and then it shocked everyone when it saw the potential through. I was skeptical that Colours was using the Unleashed format and thought it might end up being a bit crap, but Colours really used Unleashed as a stepping stone and I really do think it's an excellent game.
As for this new footage, I have some concerns.
- Initially, I wondered if they would be separating 3D and 2D entirely, which they don't appear to be doing. The 3D segments are, true to form, Unleashed/Colours style perspective switches throughout the level. This is fine, as it could get quite bland if it was entirely 3D, but this also means that the 2D levels will be just 2D. To actually differentiate itself from the 2D sections of the modern Sonic levels, then they'd better get this [censored]ing physics [censored] right, and the level of zoom shown in certain parts of it just seems inappropriate.
- 3D levels look a bit empty. I know this was a concern I had with Unleashed, which was proved a bit wrong in some places, and it was certainly a concern I had with Colours. However, I did think that Tropical Resort looked bland in the Colours trailer, but in playing the game I understood that it was the first level and needed to be less challenging and cluttered than the later ones. Colours showed me more variety than gameplay footage of its first level, so hopefully this game will do the same.
- Sonic 4 is [censored] and I don't trust Sega with classic Sonic.
- This game makes Sonic 4 redundant
- Not fair, actually, Sonic 4 made itself redundant by being so [censored].
- Since instead of playing with nostalgia a bit, they are going for the straight up remaking of classic levels and such. Only Green Hill has been shown, so it's entirely possible that we'll end up just seeing Sonic 1 levels. That's not many levels, and as I've said many a time, Sonic Colours is way too [censored]ing short. I am not paying upwards of £30 for a game and find that by the next morning I've completed it.
- Lack of any suitable substitution for Wisps. I understand that Wisps themselves can't be brought back, but they really were good elements that added a lot to Colours, and I don't think it would harm the game to bring in any kind of contrived [censored] that could replicate or behave similarly to Wisps.
- Colours might have been a fluke and this might be [censored]
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Post by Retro on Apr 20, 2011 18:50:52 GMT
I have agree with both sides here.
Studio's comment about it being "push button = win" is entirely true for almost, what, 3 minutes of a level? Colours had that in it's trailers but turned out fine. This game needs to balance that out as Colours did if it wants to be anything other than amazingly boring and dull.
But I can see other peoples opinions about the "spectacle." I think they just need to polish the graphics up (always comes late in a dev cycle anyway) as while it looks good, it could look better in the world of full retail AA/AAA games these days. Not major enhancements, just eliminating the minor issues that are frequent within it but are noticable.
Retro segments are intriguing. Sonic 4 taught me at least to give physics a chance with how they work in relevance to it's own game, not to the games we imagine. So I'm not gonna lay any "opinion" on them yet till I've tried them. (SoS hopefully)
In short. It needs some work and the modern versions desperately need to showcase...well...any gameplay at all as of yet. But hopefully my worries shall be quashed.
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Post by Baron Canier on Apr 20, 2011 18:56:31 GMT
Colours might have been a fluke and this might be [censored] Yyyup. As I said earlier, Colours being good was the exception to the rule. There's still no guarantee.
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