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Post by rj on May 4, 2011 18:40:50 GMT
i don't think you understand "menace" isn't the problem the design of s3k mecha was a travesty in comparison to cd's metal; to paraphrase a review of sucker punch: when everything is awesome, nothing is
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Post by madhair60 on May 5, 2011 19:25:43 GMT
I prefer the imposing look of the S3K Mecha Sonic, personally. Metal looks like a toy.
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Post by rj on May 8, 2011 21:08:35 GMT
I prefer the imposing look of the S3K Mecha Sonic, personally. Metal looks like a toy. I'll agree that he's more menacing in action; he's easily the better of the two in terms of motion, as S3K's more detailed animations grant him a sense of weight that makes him feel like an actual thing; But I think that Metal has the better pure design out of the two, even if he isn't able to hold it up when he actually moves around on screen. To each his, etc.
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Post by Baron Canier on May 8, 2011 21:15:11 GMT
Mecha Sonic triumphs because he's a better boss fight. None of Metal Sonic's appearances have ever managed to give us a decent fight with the guy. I think the closest try was Triple Trouble.
It's kind of ironic that Metal Sonic has become so incredibly popular, given that barely anyone played the games in which he appeared.
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Post by rj on May 8, 2011 21:16:43 GMT
It's kind of ironic that Metal Sonic has become so incredibly popular, given that barely anyone played the games in which he appeared. Again, pure design. Whether or not it's used well is an entirely separate matter.
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Post by Nam on May 9, 2011 17:06:35 GMT
Mecha Sonic triumphs because he's a better boss fight. None of Metal Sonic's appearances have ever managed to give us a decent fight with the guy. I think the closest try was Triple Trouble. It's kind of ironic that Metal Sonic has become so incredibly popular, given that barely anyone played the games in which he appeared. He's been in a fair few, playable in Sonic Adventure DX as a 100% completion bonus, playable in multiplayer in Sonic Adventure 2 battle, playable in both Rivals, playable in Sonic R, playable in Riders, was the main antagonist of Heroes, and has been in about fifteen games. Plus, he was prominent in STC, had a relatively large role in Archie, and was featured in the OVA. Also, in his first appearance, Metal Sonic actually does something beyond just attacking. Sure, all he does is kidnap Amy, then terrorize small animals in the past, but that's much more than what either the Silver Sonic in Sonic 2, or the Mecha Sonic in Sonic and Knuckles do. Ultimately, all of it just adds up to him being popular.
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Post by Baron Canier on May 9, 2011 20:17:20 GMT
He's been in a fair few, playable in Sonic Adventure DX as a 100% completion bonus, playable in multiplayer in Sonic Adventure 2 battle, playable in both Rivals, playable in Sonic R, playable in Riders, was the main antagonist of Heroes He appeared in those games because he already had the reputation for being "that awesome guy from the classic games". The only classic-era games he appeared in (excluding dreadful spin-offs like Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, which don't count) were CD, Chaotix and Triple Trouble. Hardly anyone played those. His appearances in modern games are due to nostalgia. Plus, he was prominent in STC, had a relatively large role in Archie, and was featured in the OVA. Except those comics did more with him than the games ever did. I've mentioned this in the past; the comics push Metal Sonic to the forefront and tout him as a credible villain, while the games just sort of...discard him and don't really big him up at all after his initial appearance. Also, in his first appearance, Metal Sonic actually does something beyond just attacking. Sure, all he does is kidnap Amy, then terrorize small animals in the past, but that's much more than Mecha Sonic did. Ultimately, all of it just adds up to him being popular. ...what? Mecha Sonic's fight in S3&K is heralded as one of the best, more memorable fights in video game history. Everyone confronted him and [censored]ing [censored] themselves. Metal Sonic kidnapped the Sega equivalent of Minnie Mouse. Big whoop.
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Post by Ryan James on May 9, 2011 20:49:46 GMT
He appeared in those games because he already had the reputation for being "that awesome guy from the classic games". The only classic-era games he appeared in (excluding dreadful spin-offs like Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, which don't count) were CD, Chaotix and Triple Trouble. Hardly anyone played those. His appearances in modern games are due to nostalgia. Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 MS only appeared in that game, Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 MD only appeared in that game and Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Mecha Sonic only appeared in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Metal Sonic's pre-Adventure appearances consist of CD, Chaotix, Triple Trouble, Drift 2, The Fighters and R. His appearances in modern games isn't a matter of nostalgia, it's just that Metal Sonic has always been the most popular robot Sonic to reuse. ...what? Mecha Sonic's fight in S3&K is heralded as one of the best, more memorable fights in video game history. Heralded as such by who exactly? The only memorable part of Mecha Sonic's fight is the nostalgia fights leading up to the proper battle and him going super when playing as Knuckles. The fight with him before he goes super (which is the only fight with him as Sonic, not counting the nostalgia encounters leading up to the proper fight) is just an easier version of Sonic 2's Silver Sonic fight. Truly memorable.
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Post by Alex on May 9, 2011 20:54:14 GMT
Memorable enough for you to describe it in detail.
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Post by Baron Canier on May 9, 2011 21:32:28 GMT
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Post by Nam on May 10, 2011 8:02:54 GMT
He's been in a fair few, playable in Sonic Adventure DX as a 100% completion bonus, playable in multiplayer in Sonic Adventure 2 battle, playable in both Rivals, playable in Sonic R, playable in Riders, was the main antagonist of Heroes He appeared in those games because he already had the reputation for being "that awesome guy from the classic games". The only classic-era games he appeared in (excluding dreadful spin-offs like Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, which don't count) were CD, Chaotix and Triple Trouble. Hardly anyone played those. His appearances in modern games are due to nostalgia. Except those comics did more with him than the games ever did. I've mentioned this in the past; the comics push Metal Sonic to the forefront and tout him as a credible villain, while the games just sort of...discard him and don't really big him up at all after his initial appearance. The point was that all these things add up to why Metal Sonic is the more popular and important of all the Sonic clone robots. Good design, good use in other media, repeatedly picked for other games rather than getting destroyed and forgotten about. Also, in his first appearance, Metal Sonic actually does something beyond just attacking. Sure, all he does is kidnap Amy, then terrorize small animals in the past, but that's much more than Mecha Sonic did. Ultimately, all of it just adds up to him being popular. ...what? Mecha Sonic's fight in S3&K is heralded as one of the best, more memorable fights in video game history. Everyone confronted him and [censored]ing [censored] themselves. Metal Sonic kidnapped the Sega equivalent of Minnie Mouse. Big whoop.[/quote] But all he is, is a boss. He has no more significance than the spike handed prison egg in Flying Battery, or the Sandopolis Golem. He might be a two stage boss, as Knuckles, but that's no different to the Death Egg Core, and he might show up multiple times when fought as Sonic, but he piloting Egg-O-Matic's in those times, and those things are damn sturdy. Nobody "[censored]ing [censored] themselves" to see him or fight him, he wasn't built up at all. He just appeared, out of the blue, with no explanation, piloting an Egg-O-Matic, and anyone who had already played the game a bit before then would've seen that anyone can pilot one of them (You see Knuckles in one in Launch Base, would've seen Sonic/Tails pilot one to Launch Base's final boss, and chances are you played a bit as Knuckles before you got that far as Sonic, and hence you saw the Egg-Robo in one, so by that point it's not overly significant that it wasn't Robotnik in the Egg-O-Matic). Quality of characters gameplay doesn't add up to popularity. You only need to look at how God awful Shadow the Hedgehog's game was, against how popular he is as a character to see that there's no correlation between a well used, fun to play as/against character, and one who just has a popular design and/or personality. The same thing happened with Metal Sonic. He looks awesome, people remember him most of all the enemy robots in the series, and despite his minimal use, almost all the use of him has been good. I'll concede the Metal Sonic boss fight in CD is [censored]e, but then saying that the Mecha Sonic one isn't that great. The boss itself is quite dull, only being interesting when it breaks your teleporter as it comes in. Ultimately it simply came down to the fact that Metal was a recurring character, even beore the Sonic Adventure Days. Sure, he might've only been used in a few obscure games that nobody had ever heard of or played until they got Gems collection, but he got picked over the others for whatever reason, to be re-used, and with that is where his popularity and status as a character, rather than a generic boss enemy like the other Sonic Mechs, began to establish. The OVA and comics may have helped, but it was whoever decided to put him in Drit 2 and Triple Trouble that kick started his popularity.
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Post by ShayMay on May 10, 2011 9:04:20 GMT
I'm not going to pretend that the Metal Sonic CD fight was any good, but I think racing a boss is a [censored]ing genius idea for a Sonic game and I hope to see it picked up again.
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Post by Balls on May 10, 2011 10:07:12 GMT
No doubt there'll be a Stardust Speedway in Generations.
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
High Priest of the Religion of Football
STC-O's resident footy obsessive
Posts: 2,815
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Post by Spudiator on May 11, 2011 7:57:24 GMT
The only classic-era games he appeared in (excluding dreadful spin-offs like Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic the Fighters, which don't count) were CD, Chaotix and Triple Trouble. Hardly anyone played those. His appearances in modern games are due to nostalgia. Chaotix and Triple Trouble I'll grant you, but if you honestly think that hardly anyone played Sonic CD you're sadly deluded.
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Post by ShayMay on May 11, 2011 8:12:20 GMT
Chaotix and Triple Trouble I'll grant you, but if you honestly think that hardly anyone played Sonic CD you're sadly deluded. No, he's quite right. Hardly anyone owned a Mega-CD back when it was first released.
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Post by Samface on May 11, 2011 8:56:08 GMT
Ah, but it was converted to PC a couple of years later. That's how I got my mitts on it.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on May 11, 2011 12:10:49 GMT
And me.
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Post by rj on May 11, 2011 21:57:07 GMT
And my axe
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Post by Pete on May 11, 2011 23:09:05 GMT
And my bow.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on May 11, 2011 23:21:11 GMT
And yer little dog too!
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Post by Mecha HMS on May 12, 2011 2:32:43 GMT
No love for clown Sonic in Sonic 2 Gamegear the boss of Scrambled Egg Zone
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Post by Baron Canier on May 17, 2011 15:24:37 GMT
The robot in GG Sonic 2 is called "Silver Sonic".
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Post by Emilybee on May 25, 2011 21:51:47 GMT
I remember him... The best bit about him was he was taken down.
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Post by Beeth on May 27, 2011 10:15:18 GMT
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was arguably the best, I'd imagine; the games immediately preceding it (semicolon, get in!) might run a close competition, as in the likes CD and 2. I tend to think the Advance games come close as well, in spite of their relatively forgotten status nowadays.
I don't think any of these, however, make the best possible Sonic game. If they really pulled their fingers out and got down to the nitty-gritty they might have improved the concept further rather than err on the merchandising side. Sadly, as time's gone on it's looked increasingly likely that this may never happen, including recent returns to form.
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Post by madhair60 on May 27, 2011 10:21:47 GMT
Am I missing something? I can't fathom Sonic 2 or otherwise being considered better than S3K, in a purely objective sense. Growing up with the game, or whatever, then yes; it's perfectly reasonable to have a favourite. I mean, Castle of Illusion on the SMS is a peerless bit of platforming and my favourite game ever, but I'd never claim it was the best. Going by its sheer scope, fantastic variety and feature set, and series-best boss fights, S3K wins. Every time.
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