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Post by madhair60 on Oct 7, 2011 11:49:21 GMT
Great story mode and surprisingly addictive once you make decent progress. Really hard at first, and then really easy at the end. It's a bit tough to judge where characters are in relation to you, sometimes.
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2011 14:25:24 GMT
Barely any love for Sonic Battle? Shame. It's finally time for this... Sonic Heroes, 2004 - Gamecube, Playstation 2, Xbox, PC
There's so much to say about this game that I couldn't possibly write it all in a succinct summary of it. Some people like it, others hate it and both camps have extremely good reasons. Everytime I go back to it, I'm determined to like it. I've had three versions of it - a choppy PC one, then PS2 (cos that's all I had back then) and a marginally better GC copy - but I've never recaptured the enjoyment I had from it in the early days. The biggest new addition in this game is controlling four teams of three, each with a speed, flight and power character. Team Rose - Amy, Cream and Big - is the easy mode and is incredibly simple to plough through if you can put up with their terrible lines. Team Sonic - Sonic, Tails and Knuckles - is "normal" but even their characters have been butchered beyond belief. Team Dark - Shadow, Rouge and new boy Omega - is hard mode and it really can be a tough slog. Fortunately, they're possibly the most interesting of the four. Team Chaotix - Vector, Espio and Charmy - completely mix things up by making you find things but that usually doesn't make the game more fun, as "Shadow the Hedgehog" will prove. The levels are more "Mobius"-like, exaggerating the wierdness factor with massive mushrooms, weather-changing frogs, flying cars and floating ruins. It's a great idea to go back to 7 levels each with 2 "acts" and the variety of themes is welcome, but there feels like a definite lull in the middle of the game. Bosses are rubbish and take too much time to pull apart. Music is some of the most relistenable in the series. The main problems in this game are the multitude of bottomless pits with rails over them, a dodgy camera (which I used to claim was fine) and absolutely shocking voice acting. I just don't understand this one, as they were perfectly fine during the majority of Sonic Adventure and quickly went downhill to this point. Tails is beyond appalling, Big sounds ridiculous and even my favourite Knuckles voice has no passion. The horribly cheesy lines they're given don't help and this game serves as one of the biggest reminders why characters should stop talking in-level. I keep wanting to like this game as it has interesting features and decent levels. There's also something though that keeps killing any fun I try to have and I put it back on the shelf for another two years. The special stages are perhaps the biggest reason I can't be bothered to complete the game on my third copy - they're completely broken. My hopes are high for the Seaside Hill level on Generations, because it might actually make Heroes look good. |
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Post by MentalAnalysis on Oct 8, 2011 16:08:28 GMT
As stated many times before in the forums, I'm on the Pro-Heroes side.
I actually thought the voice acting improved compared to Adventures 2 (with dialogue sounding like they were just handed the script and on more than a few occasions getting cut off near the end of every sentence).
Gameplay wise, you were better off playing on the gamecube. It just feels clunky with the other consoles, especially the Ps2.
Overall, I felt the game was fun. A bit flawed in places but still fun.
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Post by madhair60 on Oct 8, 2011 16:50:20 GMT
Great graphics, great music, great Seaside Hill, great Egg Fleet.
Everything else? The beginning of the end.
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Post by MentalAnalysis on Oct 8, 2011 17:09:26 GMT
The beginning of the end. perfect analogy right there! |
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Oct 8, 2011 18:34:28 GMT
Advance 1 was ok. Nothing really wrong apart from the nigh on pointlessness of Knuckles really.
Advance 2 was meh. Really is too fast and punishes those who hadn't played.
Loved Battle. Good enjoable story, Made Shadow a good character.
Heroes. Art style was lovely, first 6 levels are genuinely good, then it kinda degenerates into grind sessions. Plus no real difference between the teams.
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2011 18:49:15 GMT
Plus no real difference between the teams. Except for Team Rose having half of their levels missing compared to Team Dark's? |
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Post by Tom J on Oct 8, 2011 20:28:30 GMT
There's not enough difference between the teams to justify making you play what is essentially the same game four times before getting "the real ending".
Additionally, if you happen to play as every other team first, team Roses' game is a big and pointless piss.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Oct 8, 2011 21:23:27 GMT
^This really. I mean there were a few areas that were Chaotix exclusive. And some characters did play a bit differently.
Anyone else notice if playing as Team Dark, going into first person and looking at Rouge, she'll wink at you after a second.
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Post by Balls on Oct 9, 2011 8:37:41 GMT
(with dialogue sounding like they were just handed the script and on more than a few occasions getting cut off near the end of every sentence).
I do wonder how much of the vast improvement with the 4Kids VAs was just down to them being better actors (which they obviously were) or whether they decided to organise the acting a tad better in future games. Not that it was particularly groundbreaking from Shadow onwards anyway. |
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Post by Nam on Oct 9, 2011 8:41:26 GMT
I have a love hate relationship with heroes, I think it's a great fun, but it's fun in a brilliantly-awful sense. It's by no means a good game, but somehow all the wrongness sort of cancels itself out in hindsight. Few points to note though:
1) Team Rose might as well be named "piss easy". There levels are simple, they don't do the harder sections, or fight the worse enemies, they get the best team blast (it gives them a free invincibility), which I'm sure goes up quicker for them, and there bonus missions revolve around collecting rings so you'll never die completely with them. Grating as hell to play as though, both Cream and especially Big have horrible voices. It's like the game is deliberately winding you up and forcing you to play with the retards for choosing to play easy.
2) The story is completely stupid. Team Sonic announces at the start of there story they have 72 hours (three days) to get to Eggman's Egg Fleet weapon. Then, in Rail Canyon, they have until nightfall to get it done. Then, in Hang Castle, it is night time. So they failed, but somehow it's okay, because nobody was paying attention to time when they ordered the levels/wrote the story. Also, why is Knuckles there? Isn't there a giant gem he needs to guard? The rest of the characters sort of make sense: Cream and Big are looking for people apparently seen with Sonic, so they, along with stalker Amyu go chase Eggman thinking that's where Sonic will be, Chaotix are being hired to go through all the [censored] they do, and Team Dark just want to blow [censored] up, find out who Shadow is (lol sequel hook) and get Eggman's ultimate treasure. they're by no means complicated reasons, but they make some sense. Knuckles, he's just there because Sonic and Tails knew there'd be giant fans in the way.
2.5) furthermore, all the team fights are completely arbitrary. Chaotix Vs Team Rose makes the most sense, the Chaotix had just done a Chao collecting mission, ran into Team Rose, who have a Chao with them, and fight over it's ownership. It's still a stretch by a longshot, but much better than "Sonic, this time there's no escape from you marrying me". Team sonic and Team Dark fight because they both want to fight Eggman, which makes about as much sense as a one seater rocket ship, and Team Dark and Team Chaotix fight because ... well they needed a fourth combination.
3) having mention the team battles already; the bosses are [censored]. Really really [censored]. Sure, Egg Hawk is fine as an opener, then you get the aforementioned Team battles, where it's just spam Sonic Wind until the other team fall off. After that, it's Robot Carnival, you versus a bunch of robots (which, if done as Team chaotix, will be "fill up your team blast gauge, use team blast, collect enough rings from all the enemies you just destroyed to fill your gauge again). Then Egg Albatross (Egg Hawk with more weapons, in a bigger arena, which will be destroyed down to just the Egg Hawk again). The next two bosses are again repeats, another team battle, then Robot Storm, a harder robot carnival. Finally it's Egg Emperor who is basically a [censored]. So very cheap with his beam spam sword, and constant urge to Charge, especially when you're jumping between platforms. He's not so bad when you see the pattern, but until then...
4)The robot enemies are a pain. Sure, the Egg Pawns are great cannon fodder, and the flying Egg Pawn's are good for using as a homing attack platform, but who's idea was it to give them hit points? It's not so bad at the start, when you can destroy any enemy as a level three character, and any enemy can be trashed by power formation immediately, but near the end, the health is just insane. Forty five hit points for an armoured hammer swinging bot who can't actually be hurt until you knock him over when dizzy. [censored], that, [censored]. Having to fight three of those on one platform. [censored] the [censored] off [censored]. Takes too long, and is too much of a time waste. It's almost no threat once you know how to beat them, (and by Final Fortress you will know how to defeat them, you'll have fought so many), but it just takes forever to do.
5) Special Stages. They're just broken. I've managed to get the first two emeralds. Cannot get the rest for trying, even as Team Rose. No idea what the last boss plays like for that reason. You start boosting, and you'll be stuck on the ceiling, with the only way to get down being to let yourself come to a standstill and fall. Naturally this will lose you distance on the emerald you're chasing, so you're [censored]ed on getting it.
6) The levels suffer from bad design. Sure, aesthetically they're beautiful, and certainly more Mobian than Adventure 1 or 2, but too many of them (I'm looking at you Rail Canyon, and Egg Fleet, even though the latter is somewhat justified) are rails over bottomless pits. This wouldn't be a big deal if the rails worked properly, but they don't. Unless you jump off the rail perfectly, there is nothing to guarantee your jump will connect to the next rail. Keep in mind that in many places the rails aren't actually the default landing spot, and you need to try and maneuver yourself onto the rail while the camera tries to give you a dramatic angle instead of a helpful one. Bingo levels also suffer too, but that's more just because Pinball physics were never something I could grasp. There's nothing technically wrong with those bits, they're just infuriating to try and get the ball where you want it.
But in spite of all these flaws, which do pretty much cover everything in the game, it's somehow still awesome. Yes, at any given point you'll plummet to your death, yes the acting is bad, yes the story is [censored], yes the gameplay itself can be idiotic at times, inspite of all that, the game somehow manages to be fun. It's by no means brilliant, infact if it were better it would somehow be worse. But the game is just broken and just bad enough that it's good. This game has narm charm, is as campy as Sonic gets, and is just so bad it's good. It's stupid, but a fun stupid, infuriating, but ridiculously so. Playing it with the intent of taking it seriously will just make you want to stop, but playing it with your tongue in your cheek and there's a lot of great stupid fun to be found in it.
Also, the songs and music are still good, bar Amy's theme. Again, they're also camp, cheesy, and you wouldn't want to play them at a wedding or party with non-Sonic friends, but there's still something genuinely entertaining about them despite (or perhaps because of) the cheese
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Oct 9, 2011 18:44:14 GMT
Quite liked Team Rose's theme in Heroes. More than Team Sonics anyway.
Ages ago over on Sonic HQ forums, someone stated that Heroes seems to have spent too much time in design rather than actual development.
Same bloke then said about Shadow: did they just throw a bunch of models on a disk and call it a game?
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Post by Arch on Oct 12, 2011 13:22:41 GMT
Sonic Advance 3, 2004 - Game Boy Advance I'm not a massive fan of Sonic Advance 3 and consider it to be the worst in the mini-series. There's not a whole lot wrong with it which baffles me. I blame the somewhat clunky gameplay of having two characters at once. At times it works, and I particularly like the mega-jump you get by having Tails as Sonic's partner. However, their aerial move is pointless, with the charge-up time needed to execute it making it pointless having Tails as a "helicopter" by the time you need it. There are plenty of other pointless combinations, too. Levels are nice enough. Following in the vein of Music Plant, Toy Kingdom is another delightfully eccentric zone that is loads of fun to play through. Chaos Angel feels suitably epic and Route 99 is a decent alternative to a green level. On the other hand, we get yet another ice level, a visually-horrific Cyber Track and Ocean Base is far too dull with cheap trap placement. Bosses are a really good addition in this game and revert to the way it was before chasing bosses. Gemel/Gemerl/G-Mel is an interesting idea, but his random appearances are nowhere near as meaningful as Emerl's story (although what can you really fit into a linear platform game). Again, entry into Special Stages is ridiculous (but not as bad before), having to find ten Chao in every level before getting a shot at the Chaos Emeralds. I may be alone in thinking so (and I'm pretty sure I am) but the Advance series definitely went downhill as it went along and it does coincide with the main series' experimental failures. Thank goodness the Rush series came along and (almost) returned things to their roots with single-character controls and a much better playing experience. EDIT: Just playing Heroes again and got all the Emeralds with no problem at all. That game! |
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Oct 12, 2011 13:44:41 GMT
To me Advance 3 was ok. Better than 2 worse than 1.
Always found the soundtracks in 1 and 2 forgettable. 3's was actually good.
Also Chaos Angel is a [censored]ing awesome level that needed to be in Generations.
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Post by madhair60 on Oct 12, 2011 15:18:20 GMT
Another great instalment in the Advance series. Nothing to report otherwise. Already blew my Advance discussion load on a thread a while back.
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Post by Beeth on Oct 12, 2011 16:16:17 GMT
Advance 1 was good, 2 and 3 were great. Nice little series, enjoyed it right through.
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Post by MentalAnalysis on Oct 12, 2011 17:04:55 GMT
Sonic Advance 3 was best of the series. I loved how they explored the whole Partner system by giving the player about 20 possible ways of playing through the game. Only bad thing about the game was that it was Rail-city for a good portion.
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Post by ShayMay on Oct 12, 2011 17:06:12 GMT
Sonic Advance 3 was the third game in the Sonic Advance series.
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