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Post by ShayMay on Aug 6, 2011 13:24:27 GMT
Never played this one myself, but it does have some lovely animation. Looks a bit bland gameplay-wise though.
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Post by Arch on Aug 10, 2011 14:58:33 GMT
Sooo.... Sonic the Hedgehog CD, 1993 - Mega-CD This really makes me conflicted on so many angles, so I don't think I could do a good write-up of it at all. On the face of it, it's an enjoyable game in the same vein of Sonic 1, but it requires a fair bit of effort to make it a much more exciting experience. More effort than I usually want to put into a Sonic game. Palmtree Panic is really nice. Your thoughts?
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 10, 2011 18:50:20 GMT
Massively overrated.
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 10, 2011 19:01:13 GMT
Entirely different set of priorities from the standard Sonic game. That's neither a criticism nor a compliment, but it is something that makes the game appeal to me personally. I can see why others dislike it, and I do feel it gets a bit more praise than it deserves - Wacky Workbench, for example, is an unforgivable atrocity. Still, great game.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 10, 2011 19:50:22 GMT
Tisn't. It's massively praised by people who don't bother to explain why it's so excellent. Just like I'm not going to, in a spectacular display of self-sabotage.
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Post by Alex on Aug 10, 2011 20:06:35 GMT
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Post by Baron Canier on Aug 10, 2011 20:10:36 GMT
Sonic CD's a neat little game. However, I have to really be in the mood to play it due to the vast task of fixing all the futures. CD has different design priorities in regards to its levels, making it difficult to judge alongside the standard Sonic games. It's still one of the better Sonic games, though. Final boss could've been better. For the most part what I remember about CD's levels is that they were a tad...strange. They had lots of differing sections of the levels, and encouraged exploration (some winding routes culminated in dead ends, for example) so that you could find the ideal means to gather the required speed to travel back in time. Badniks and pits are scarce in CD, but they're not your main opponent: it's the level layout itself that's trying to stop you. Admittedly that does go against the general design mantras of Sonic games, but at the end of the day it's still a fun game. I also have to admire the amount of work put into it: all those different eras for the zones, accompanied by their own unique music depending on whether or not you changed the past. It was quite ambitious. I wouldn't call it the best Sonic game ever. Not by a good margin. But, like I said, it's a neat little game and the experimentation was executed much more competantly than some of the later titles. I brand it "Good". Solid game.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 10, 2011 20:20:26 GMT
It's rubbish if you play it incorrectly, of course. If you don't go for the good ending, which is the entire point of the game. But it's easier to just say it's overrated than to admit fault.
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Post by Alex on Aug 10, 2011 20:24:50 GMT
No, it's easy to say it's overrated when people are saying it's better than games like Sonic 2 or S3&K, which is just patently not true. I personally found the game completely devoid of everything I enjoyed in all the other Sonic games I'd played. Maybe it would be a great game if it wasn't meant to be a Sonic game, but as a Sonic game, it was a horrible example of it.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 10, 2011 20:32:20 GMT
It was the second or third one, though, wasn't it? If it was to come out now then you'd have a point. At release there was hardly an established formula.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 10, 2011 21:13:23 GMT
Thanks btw, playing CD right now and it's absolutely tremendous still.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Aug 10, 2011 21:53:53 GMT
It's rubbish if you play it incorrectly, of course. If you don't go for the good ending, which is the entire point of the game. But it's easier to just say it's overrated than to admit fault. It took me ages to figure out what I was supposed to do, seeing as I was so used to the usual model of "go right until the exit"! Once I had figured out I was supposed to get good futures, I think I enjoyed it more... cute widdle animals and things. The special stages I could never get the hang of, though. Bloody UFOs. Before anyone says, my ebay purchaed copy for the PC was minus a manual!! Bah.
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Post by Balls on Aug 11, 2011 2:24:58 GMT
No, it's easy to say it's overrated when people are saying it's better than games like Sonic 2 or S3&K, which is just patently not true. I personally found the game completely devoid of everything I enjoyed in all the other Sonic games I'd played. Maybe it would be a great game if it wasn't meant to be a Sonic game, but as a Sonic game, it was a horrible example of it. It is definitely, without a doubt, objectively miles better than Sonic 2.
Sonic 2 definitely deviated from Sonic 1's formula just as much as CD.
When played incorrectly, it's rubbish, but when going for good futures, it has the most expertly crafted levels for extensive exploration and you were rewarded for it with more than just a simple extra life- which no other Sonic title has successfully done.
As a sequel to Sonic 1, it topped it in terms of exploration and platforming. Sonic 2, on the other hand, didn't do this in the slightest. Its level design was drastically simplified from Sonic 1, even if the goal is the same which in CD it isn't.
Sonic 2 is hold right to win. Not to mention the amount of laziness Sonic 2 smacks of that CD simply doesn't. Recoloured levels, Tails' absolute pointlessness, broken multiplayer, Tails breaking the special stages etc.
Sonic CD gives you completely unique levels, and four different versions of each with altered graphics and remixed music. Each level is perfectly crafted and thought about. It looks great, it sounds great and is one of the boldest directions the series has gone in, and the most successful deviation of the "standard" formula there has been to date.
To say it's better than S3K is just wrong. S3K brings back the exploration of Sonic 1 and CD in spades, as well as some of the more "thrilling" and speed-based antics of Sonic 2. It's everything good about all three of its predecessors perfectly refined into probably the best 2D platformer in existence.
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Post by Arch on Aug 11, 2011 8:00:30 GMT
No, it's easy to say it's overrated when people are saying it's better than games like Sonic 2 or S3&K, which is just patently not true. I personally found the game completely devoid of everything I enjoyed in all the other Sonic games I'd played. Maybe it would be a great game if it wasn't meant to be a Sonic game, but as a Sonic game, it was a horrible example of it. Sonic 2 definitely deviated from Sonic 1's formula just as much as CD.
Wha..? This blatent lying... I'm not sure how you can call a game that involves everything you've just mentioned (time travel, four different layouts for every Act, intense exploration, remixed music) just as different to Sonic 1 as its own sequel, which includes all the same hold right to wins and bop-a-badnik formula that the original one created. I give in to some other things you said, but that's just a baffling second line. Throwing in my opinion towel into the ring, I easily concede that the whole point of the game is to achieve the good futures and that's easy enough, sometimes. As I mentioned, though, I like to "hold right to win" and just enjoy myself along the way, encountering the problems when I'm supposed to. It's probably why I've never played a Metroid game, I'm not a fan of backtracking. Sonic CD's American soundtrack is sub-par, not heard the Euro/Jap one. They ruined the Spin Dash in this game (or hadn't refined it yet, depending on which one was started first). Wacky Workbench is brutal if you're going for a quick one and just manage to land on the floor when it sends you up to a dead end. Metal Sonic fight is overrated to the hilt, but original, I'll give it that. Final Zone is a total letdown in all aspects, although Shrinking Ray <3
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 11, 2011 9:26:50 GMT
Wha..? This blatent lying... I'm not sure how you can call a game that involves everything you've just mentioned (time travel, four different layouts for every Act, intense exploration, remixed music) just as different to Sonic 1 as its own sequel, which includes all the same hold right to wins and bop-a-badnik formula that the original one created. CD had loads of bopping Badniks as well. Probably even more than Sonic 2 - there are dozens of the buggers all over the place. Sonic 1 was never hold-right-to-win. The sheer complexity of the level design means I am still finding new things in Green Hill Zone even today. It was a more thoughtful platformer, much less focused on speed and much more focused on traditional platforming. Sonic 2, however, while the only Zone I really feel is hold-right-to-win is Emerald Hill Zone, is much more focused on high-speed antics - it has a completely different set of priorities to Sonic 1. Just like Sonic CD. As I say, the backtracking and exploration of Sonic CD is a turn-off for most people, and I must admit I sympathise to a point. Usually when I want a Sonic game, I want quick, simple fun. I have to be in a more patient mood to play Sonic CD - kind of like Metroid, actually. It is a brilliant game, expertly designed to do what it sets out to do.
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Post by Beeth on Aug 11, 2011 9:54:18 GMT
I have to be in a more patient mood to play Sonic CD - kind of like Metroid, actually. Which reminds me: I'm late for golf! Get that Sonic CD LP continued Shay, I was enjoying that. :3 And then do Metroid. >:3
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Post by Arch on Aug 11, 2011 10:54:36 GMT
Wha..? This blatent lying... I'm not sure how you can call a game that involves everything you've just mentioned (time travel, four different layouts for every Act, intense exploration, remixed music) just as different to Sonic 1 as its own sequel, which includes all the same hold right to wins and bop-a-badnik formula that the original one created. CD had loads of bopping Badniks as well. Probably even more than Sonic 2 More lies (possibly)! I must go the wrong each way, I only encounter a maximum of about 4 Badniks in each of CD's levels. It all feels fairly empty with regards to that, plenty of tricky traps, though. Sonic 1 is hold right to win. Sure, you can explore, but you don't have to. Marble Zone's a definite exception, holding left and right when you have to win, Labyrinth comes close, too. Nowhere near in the realms of Sonic CD's exploration, though.
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 11, 2011 11:34:59 GMT
Sonic 1 is hold right to win. Sure, you can explore, but you don't have to. If that's the case, I'd say Sonic CD is closer to Sonic 1 than Sonic 2 is. And yeah, there are tons of Badniks, especially in Palmtree Panic. They're swarming all over the bloody place. D:
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 11, 2011 11:38:55 GMT
To expand a little, massively overrated doesn't mean bad. It's just not as good as many people will have you believe. It always rather irks me that it's stated as a given by many that it's the best Sonic game of all time when, to anyone who's actually played the majority of the series including the classics, it ought to be fairly obvious it's not.
I mean, don't get me wrong, opinions are opinions at the end of the day, Sonic CD could be the personal favourite of many, many people and that's fine. It's just sort of weird considering, of the home console classics, it's probably the one that the fewest people played yet, somehow, seemingly the one the most people praise.
There are a lot of great things in Sonic CD. The replay value is higher than Sonic 1's by a good way as it's very unlikely you'll get the good ending first time round. The level design is also much more ambitious than Sonic 1's and, dare I say it, Sonic 2's. And the dynamic of the four different versions of each level is astonishingly ambitious.
But the bosses are dire and appallingly easy. In particular, the last boss is so simple as to be disgraceful. The Metal Sonic fight was aesthetically pleasing but, ultimately, not very hard or satisfying for all the build up throughout the game (the Knuckles fight in S3&K isn't especially hard either but it feels great smacking some sense into him after everything he's put you through). The soundtrack is lacklustre- and I mean both of them. Yes, I know, that's liable to get my throat slit on the internet, but very few tracks in either edition are as catchy as anything in the other classic Sonic games. Much like Arch I, I have to agree enemy placement is sparse. And while I know it's the point and you have to work out where's the best place to build up speed, the terrain works against you a lot of the time if you want to time travel to the point it's often frustrating.
Sonic CD's a good try and the most ambitious thing Sonic Team did in those early days. It's just, in my view, not as good as the internet would have me believe.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 11, 2011 12:01:35 GMT
I liked the CD bosses for their variation, especially the pinball one and the conveyor belt one, where you use the friction generated by Sonic's speed to melt down Robotnik's little chamber. It's rad!
Not sure what all this calling people liars is about. If you have one game in a franchise you don't have a formula for it. Sonic 2 plays almost nothing like Sonic 1, to me.
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 11, 2011 12:23:24 GMT
Which reminds me: I'm late for golf! Get that Sonic CD LP continued Shay, I was enjoying that. :3 And then do Metroid. >:3I think I'm done with the LPing, frankly. I was never very good at it (commentary =/= swearing), I didn't have the organisational skills needed to keep my files in order, and my computer kept breaking down. Plus, my "gaming" computer has a [censored] mic - you can't pick up any game audio with it. Thanks for enjoying it though.
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Post by Beeth on Aug 11, 2011 12:33:18 GMT
No probs. And to be fair it's understandable you'd be done after your near-breakdown 30 seconds from the end during your run-in with the Collision Chaos boss.*
Anyways, Sonic CD was a canny game in places, though hardly the best I'd say. While I appreciated the more mazelike areas and platforming obstacles, I wasn't too keen on Workbench's huge bouncing floor and Sky Base-esque rods, for instance. The bosses were decent, though if anything I found the Metal Sonic race to be rather boring, and the last boss to be majorly anticlimactic. Some great soundtracks, of course, and I speak for both versions. Each are meritable in their own ways I reckon (though admittedly, Collision Chaos US is an abomination, and doesn't capture the mood of the zone at all). Overall, a sound effort, but hardly the second coming as general given consensus would have me believe.
*Those unenlightened, his commentary at this precise moment, and I quote, "Aaaaaaaaaaa-AAAAAAAAOORH!"
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Aug 11, 2011 12:58:01 GMT
When I first played Sonic CD, I would have agreed with most of the "massively overrated" crowd. That was the first play through.
As I played it more and more, you just appreciate the level design and the little quirks.
There are only two things I dislike about the game. 1) The delay in the spin dash. 2) The worst Sonic jump sound effect ever. And its the one that every single Sonic game hacker wants to put in their game. [censored].
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Post by Arch on Aug 11, 2011 15:04:52 GMT
Each to their own, by the way. That's what this is all about. I'm probably quite biased against the game after years of hype before finally getting to play it. On the subject of bosses, I do love the variety. I take as long as I dare on the Collision Chaos boss because it just feels exciting flipping about all over the place. Can't remember the last time I did Palmtree Panic without being invincible. Tidal Tempest starts fun but takes too long. Quartz Quadrant is novel but a tad boring. I like the Wacky Workbench one for some reason. Metal Sonic is dull. Metallic Madness is ridiculous because you can't not lose all your rings (unless someone wants to tell me how..).
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Post by Nam on Aug 11, 2011 22:28:02 GMT
Sonic CD has one too many gimmicky levels for my liking. Wacky Workbench is almost all bouncing all the time, which can be quite a chore, Quartz Quadrant's conveyor belts are better, but still a bit of a cheap and annoying level, and the section in Stardust Speedway where you need to navigate the narrow tubes jumping off of springs that goes on for just a little too long.
Plus, the final boss is unbelievably disappointing, a real let down. It's not a bad boss, but it's just not anywhere near as final as any other boss in the series, the Metal Sonic race is really lacklusture, the special stages are a pain, the sound is weird, yadda yadda, the usual complaints.
To be honest, Sonic CD is full of unique touches, and can be great if you intend to go back and fix the futures in each level. However, it doesn't suit a casual play through like the other games do. You don't just casually play a level of Sonic CD like you can any others, because the levels aren't designed for dashing through effectively, and unless you properly know all four acts inside and out, actually going about changing the past can be unbelievably frustrating and time consuming, making it the opposite of the other three games in terms of casual playing. Sure, it's good if you're committed, but it's not so good if you just want a casual play through.
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