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Post by madhair60 on Aug 22, 2011 18:48:16 GMT
The fire is out now. It's time to talk about Sonic 4: Episode 1. This review is based solely on the Wii version.
The worst thing about Sonic 4 is that it's called Sonic 4. This move immediately created a weight of expectation that the game simply could not live up to, since nobody on earth can design levels as well as whoever did Sonic 3 and Knuckles. They died, I think. All the same, it could never live up to (let alone exceed) the best game in the series (and on the Mega Drive/Genesis), so Sega shouldn't have pretended it can.
Still, looking at the game as a title completely divorced from its legendary predecessors, it's not half bad. It's one third bad.
Splash Hill is a reasonably fun - if relentlessly traditional opening level - with a nice mixture of old and new. It teaches the player the practicalities of the homing dash (which was in the Advance games, but rarely necessary) in an unintrusive way, and only occasionally does bad design rear its ugly head - the inability to move Sonic until he hits the peak of his bounce from a spring platform is infuriating at one point.
Casino Street is even more relentlessly traditional than the first zone, to the point of being wearisome. It's not just a homage to Sonic 2's Casino Night, it's almost exactly the [censored]ing same. The bizarre, floaty cannons do not help, and the parts where you jump across rotating playing cards over a bottomless pit are fairly infuriating and
call to mind similar sections of Sonic Advance 2's Sky Canyon, with their habit of popping up when you're going too fast to stop. There's no denying that it's fun to have 1-ups crapped into your face, but it rather cheapens the value of lives and almost seems like an apology for the level's more heinous segments.
Lost Labyrinth's first and last acts are quite wonderful (the first in particular), but the second is appalling, frankly. The "limited light" concept forcing you to edge slowly through the stage isn't fun ever, and that puzzle towards the end can do one. Here's where someone comes in and says it was good, and I kill them in their sleep.
Mad Gear is excellent, easily the best zone in the game, and it calls to mind Sonic Advance 1's Secret Base. It's actually a legitimate challenge, for a start, though most of the gimmicks are reused from Metropolis, it happens to be a lot more fun than that tedious slog of a level. I still hate Slicers, though.
The special stages suck as usual, and to me are the most obvious betrayal of Sonic 4's iOS roots, just over the fact you can choose to play the levels in any order (which is pure iPod). The rotation simply doesn't work and feels unnatural, and the difficulty quickly reaches unfair heights. The second-to-last special stage has the most appalling "[censored] you" trap waiting right at the very end. Just thinking about it makes me want to gouge out the eyes of a puppy.
Indeed, rotational gubbins permeates this game to its core, with the unnatural control of Casino Street's cannons, the "drain the water" section of Lost Labyrinth and the weird tilting platforms in Mad Gear all feeling bizarrely out of place on the Wii, especially since all can be controlled with the D-pad. If this wasn't originally an iOS-exclusive project I'll eat someone else's Sonic hat.
Boss battles disappoint (with the exception of Lost Labyrinth's and the fairly epic final mecha), with half-assed retreads of Eggman contraptions long past their sell-by date. They gain new attacks, but they're easy to put down and not particularly fun. This is a shame, since the Mega Drive Sonic games always featured excellent boss battles.
The handling overall is not bad, with Sonic looking quite jarring at first, but quickly growing on you. His movement is a little loose but it becomes second nature, the homing attack's ability to give him a quick boost forward becoming quite invaluable. Much has been made of Sonic 4's poor physics, but to be honest you're unlikely to see them unless you do things you never need to do, like slowly walking up the hills. By and large the control is fine and unobtrusive.
Cosmetically the game is very nice, especially Lost Labyrinth with its gorgeous colour scheme. I'm also becoming rather fond of the soundtrack, Splash Hill and Mad Gear in particular. I also happen to think that the final boss music is up there with the Sonic greats. It's so fantastic and evocative of the best moments of the original series.
Overall, solid. Above average, certainly. Even a bad 2D Sonic game is still well worth playing.
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Post by Tom J on Aug 22, 2011 19:35:46 GMT
technically this is a review not a post-mortem
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2011 19:51:19 GMT
The version on real consoles is better for not having any stupid motion nonsense.
Otherwise, the fact remains, as it always has been, that this game's biggest weakness is its name. And also, now, maybe its theme - since it's barely any more than a remake of classic Sonic levels to begin with - but now Generations is doing that bigger, better and prettier. And is also a finished game, which Sonic 4 will probably never be because Sega fail at episodic gaming.
A fun experiment, but really it just now feels like one of those things that should have been left on the cutting room floor, rather than paraded out in public to be set up as a failure.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 22, 2011 20:24:53 GMT
I'd have been willing to forgive many of Sonic 4's flaws (which you can find my dissection of in the Sonic 4 thread) were it not called Sonic 4.
If it were called Sonic the HeDgehog or what have you, I wouldn't have spent every second of the game comparing it to my favourite game of all time, which is pales in comparison to.
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 20:37:36 GMT
The version on real consoles is better for not having any stupid motion nonsense. Otherwise, the fact remains, as it always has been, that this game's biggest weakness is its name. And also, now, maybe its theme - since it's barely any more than a remake of classic Sonic levels to begin with - but now Generations is doing that bigger, better and prettier. And is also a finished game, which Sonic 4 will probably never be because Sega fail at episodic gaming. A fun experiment, but really it just now feels like one of those things that should have been left on the cutting room floor, rather than paraded out in public to be set up as a failure. a failure that was met with sales figures over 1 million, garnered generally favorable reviews and is disliked only by a hard core of the Sonic fandom which most people know nothing about. Damn SEGA what a mess you've got yourself into this time.... but anyway Madhair in generally agree with your over all opinion of Sonic 4, but actually found lost labyrinth puzzle good and really enjoyed having a actual challenge. I think it worked well. and I know you mentioned the extra lives in casino street, but I think you under mention how much they kill the game. each play through of the level is easily 35 extra lives at least. I went in to the final boss of the game with so many extra lives from the first few level there was never any danger of a game over. |
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Post by Baron Canier on Aug 22, 2011 20:50:00 GMT
a failure that was met with sales figures over 1 million, garnered generally favorable reviews and is disliked only by a hard core of the Sonic fandom which most people know nothing about. Damn SEGA what a mess you've got yourself into this time... Sales figures don't determine quality or justify poor decisions. |
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 20:56:37 GMT
a failure that was met with sales figures over 1 million, garnered generally favorable reviews and is disliked only by a hard core of the Sonic fandom which most people know nothing about. Damn SEGA what a mess you've got yourself into this time... Sales figures don't determine quality or justify poor decisions. no but I can't see sega losing much sleep over it and if you read the whole quote I also mention the generally favorable reviews. I just saying though personally I think Sonic 4 was poor, and really not deserving the title sonic 4 I'd hardly say I don't think in the opinion of the mass public, games reviewers or the shareholders sonic 4 has been seen as public failure. |
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 22, 2011 21:02:46 GMT
I played Sonic 4 for a while earlier today, and my only complaint that isn't "it's not the classics" is that it's criminally short. 4 Zones is nowhere near enough, especially as they're essentially re-hashed.
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Post by Baron Canier on Aug 22, 2011 21:08:10 GMT
I don't think in the opinion of the mass public, games reviewers or the shareholders sonic 4 has been seen as public failure. I don't care. |
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Post by ShayMay on Aug 22, 2011 21:10:43 GMT
I do.
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2011 21:15:47 GMT
It's a failure because it's almost a full year later and there's still only one episode. It's a failure because it has a number of critical flaws that could/should have been ironed out before release. It's a failure because it looks like a lumpy piece of [censored] compared to the series of games it's trying to count itself among - despite the fact that it's actually mostly still playable.
Sonic 2006 was a great financial success too. You're not seriously going to contest that it wasn't a failure either?
Sonic games will sell well based on the power of the franchise alone. That doesn't excuse the games being poorly designed, poorly managed or poorly developed. Every one off those cases being something that poorly affects Sonic 4 in one way or another.
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 21:23:19 GMT
I don't think in the opinion of the mass public, games reviewers or the shareholders sonic 4 has been seen as public failure. I don't care. then why bother to call out my point in the first place. My comment was only ever about mentioning that Sega won't see sonic 4 as a public failure. if you don't care then why make pointless comments? It's a failure because it's almost a full year later and there's still only one episode. It's a failure because it has a number of critical flaws that could/should have been ironed out before release. It's a failure because it looks like a lumpy piece of [censored] compared to the series of games it's trying to count itself among - despite the fact that it's actually mostly still playable. Sonic 2006 was a great financial success too. You're not seriously going to contest that it wasn't a failure either? Sonic games will sell well based on the power of the franchise alone. That doesn't excuse the games being poorly designed, poorly managed or poorly developed. Every one off those cases being something that poorly affects Sonic 4 in one way or another. ah but alex I think you miss my point a little bit. Sonic 2006 was a public failure because they've delisted the game, stopped selling it and it received a bashing by all the gaming press alongside all the sonic fan community. however with Sonic 4, the good sales, plus reviews and generally favorable public reaction by all but the hardcore sonic fandom, will have sega seeing it as a success, and if it is a failure Which I agree there are many compelling argument to suggest it is. It a private shame that sega, and the hardcore sonic fandom are in on, but most people won't notice. and also from august 11th this year I think your judging sega to harshly for it being a year... if they need a year to sort out the problem of episode 1 so be it, surely you of all people who has said many time sonic 06 would have been good if it wasn't rushed out the door. Can cut them slack to do it right. If sonic 4 episode 2 is rubbish then sure knock them about all you want, but it seem silly to say episode 1 was failure because episode 2 isn't out yet. merged two of my own posts |
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 22, 2011 21:24:50 GMT
Could you not ruin my thread please, you ballsacks.
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2011 21:26:38 GMT
I can't excuse it because they should never have gone into making an episodic game if they weren't capable of doing it right.
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Post by Devo DrakeFox on Aug 22, 2011 21:36:38 GMT
Speaking of, what's happened to Episode 2? Should it not have been out by now? There's been no news on it at all, as far as I can tell.  |
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 21:38:31 GMT
I can't excuse it because they should never have gone into making an episodic game if they weren't capable of doing it right. that implies there's a certain way to do episodic gaming which there isn't. sure there good models of business from people like Tell Tale Games, but there not a right way and a wrong way I stand by the argument that Sonic 4 can't be seen a a public failure and also think we should wait to see if and when Sonic 4 comes out before judging it or the previous game based on heresy and opinion about how games or episodic game should/shouldn't work. but I can see why people would think it's a failure and I can understand if you're used to a certain time window with your episodic gaming you might feel sega (and valve) are doing it wrong. -edit devo see my above post for news about sonic 4 from 11 days ago |
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Aug 22, 2011 21:40:04 GMT
Since Dimps have been making the DS version of Generations, I'm guessing they've been told to put it on the backburner where it can be forgotten about if necessary.
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Post by Baron Canier on Aug 22, 2011 21:49:02 GMT
then why bother to call out my point in the first place. My comment was only ever about mentioning that Sega won't see sonic 4 as a public failure. The majority viewing it as something other than a mediocre title doesn't change anything. For example: The Phantom Menace made such a colossal profit that the physical amount of money could be used to smother a large island. Doesn't make it a good film. It was a commerical success, but it's still a failure in other respects. Same basic principle here; Sonic 4 is still sub-par, regardless of how many people think otherwise and regardless of how well Sega investors sleep at night. Hence "I don't care" is meant to imply "I don't care what they say". It doesn't change anything. that implies there's a certain way to do episodic gaming which there isn't. Yes, there is: have multiple episodes in various stages of development even as the first is being released. Not to do it one step at a time, thus taking forever and leaving the project to stumble, flounder and die. |
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 22, 2011 21:57:25 GMT
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 21:58:41 GMT
then why bother to call out my point in the first place. My comment was only ever about mentioning that Sega won't see sonic 4 as a public failure. The majority viewing it as something other than a mediocre title doesn't change anything. For example: The Phantom Menace made such a colossal profit that the physical amount of money could be used to smother a large island. Doesn't make it a good film. It was a commerical success, but it's still a failure in other respects. Same basic principle here; Sonic 4 is still sub-par, regardless of how many people think otherwise and regardless of how well Sega investors sleep at night. Hence "I don't care" is meant to imply "I don't care what they say". It doesn't change anything. that implies there's a certain way to do episodic gaming which there isn't. Yes, there is: have multiple episodes in various stages of development even as the first is being released. Not to do it one step at a time, thus taking forever and leaving the project to stumble, flounder and die. Yes but alex point was it's a public failure, which it wasn't regardless of weather we think it's a good game, it public reception is good. Which is all I was saying as for the episodic gaming part, I agree it would have been better to have episode 2 in development, but maybe they did? we don't know, at the time of sonic 4 ep 1 development sega said they didn't have time to tweak the physics much because the game was so far done. Maybe they scraped a lot of there early development of sonic 4 ep 2 at that point and though "maybe we'll see what happens with ep 1 first, and what we can do better" and are now going away doing that. it's just as likely that the lazy fool who want to grab cash quick and didn't have a well thought out plan, it seems pointless to judge and call sega out for failing when they havn't yet. |
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2011 21:58:55 GMT
ITT: Stu gets mad when other people post in a forum topic.
Also
It's a failure that happened in public. Just because there's a large number of people that don't recognise it as the poor result it is, doesn't change the fact that it is that - or that in pretty much every respect, other than financially, the game has failed to do what it set out to. It's a failure.
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Post by Matt on Aug 22, 2011 22:04:22 GMT
ITT: Stu gets mad when other people post in a forum topic. Also It's a failure that happened in public. Just because there's a large number of people that don't recognise it as the poor result it is, doesn't change the fact that it is that - or that in pretty much every respect, other than financially, the game has failed to do what it set out to. It's a failure. I wouldn't agree that it's a public failure if most people don't think it's failed to do what it set out to do, which most people don't. However I don't think were going to see eye to eye on this so i'll leave it at that. |
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 22, 2011 22:04:58 GMT
ITT: Stu gets mad when other people post in a forum topic. I was hoping to avoid tedious sales/popularity talk and get down to some goddamn mechanics. I implore you, let's talk about the game. Edit: Removed pointless nastiness |
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Post by Alex on Aug 22, 2011 22:07:07 GMT
I already covered the actual game. The sales/popularity crap got pulled up by other people.
And I'll thank you to not patronise me by assuming that I'm out to patronise you. 'Cos it's not the case.
At the end of the day, it's a playable enough affair, but probably a colossally stupid idea for Sega to have come up with this as:
A) An episodic game when they had no intention of using any sensible development planning to ensure it would be released properly as one
B) Labelled it as a sequel to a series of games the modern development team could never have dreamed of matching
C) Decided to rehash and remake a bunch of levels, bosses and themes from previous Sonic games, only to do it again in not only a bigger, better release - but the next Sonic game.
It's a fun enough play, but at only 4 levels long - only one of which shows any inspiration of originality at all (which is swiftly let down by an appalling second act) - and with a series of poor development, design and management choices to boot, it's hard to consider it any more than a failure.
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Post by madhair60 on Aug 22, 2011 22:09:02 GMT
Edit: Alex, you're right, I apologise. Pointless.
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