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Post by Eleonora B.M on Sept 28, 2011 13:45:02 GMT
so rightfully too! That aside........
everyone is so keen on Shadow the Hedgehog, which on my personal opinion, sure could have been better but definetly wasn't that bad to call it one of the serie's compleat downfall. I surely expected more from it but it wasn't horrible......and Roger's parody is sugar sweet! XDXD which was probably better than the game itself...ahem...
The games I would pinpoint as WORST are Heroes, Zero Gravity, Secret Rings, Tails:Sky Patrol, Dr.Robotnik's bean machine, Spinball, Drift and R. Yeah.....these are probably the crappiest. Really couldn't chose among these........mabe one of the late genesis era, mabe among these, I'd take out Heroes and Secret rings......but they're still too bad!
what I know for sure is that after 06' I really loved 2008 because it really felt like a ray of sun in the stormy weather, with titles that already shown a tentative of Resurrection. I'm quite happy that now in 2011 we can actually talk about real Rebirth.
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Post by Warped‽‽‽ on Sept 29, 2011 0:44:52 GMT
You know things are bad when the argument is over which games are the worst.
(And all the recent entries are up for the title)
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Post by Mark on Sept 29, 2011 10:49:25 GMT
Well it certainly isn't Sonic Popcorn shop! That's one of the best out there:
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Post by Samface on Sept 30, 2011 10:10:10 GMT
Well, obviously - it gives you popcorn! It wins by default.
(Apparently one of the options is curry-flavoured popcorn. Ew.)
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 30, 2011 10:55:11 GMT
Obligatory rant on why Sonic 2006 is the worst Sonic game.
By itself - Sonic 2006 is just a poor man's Sonic Adventure to play. Hell, some of the levels are quite cool.
But, the impact this game had on the Sonic series was extreme. Because of this game: - Rush/Secret Rings style gameplay became the norm, while more 3D movement in levels are rarer and in most cases dont exist now. - Storylines have generally become more light hearted (This isn't so much a bad thing though) - Sonic's friends have disappeared. Generations is the first time Blaze, Shadow and Knuckles have appeared in a HD game since what is now known as "The Cluster[censored]". And those are the "popular" ones. - With the exception of Black Knight, Rivals and Rush, we've only actually played as Sonic. Albeit one Sonic was a God of War rip. - The rate of Sonic games released has slowed down.
Because of the critical reception the game got from fans and reviewers, things had to change and drastically. Most of the criticism had been around since Sonic moved into 3D but it had reached a melting point with Sonic 2006.
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Post by madhair60 on Sept 30, 2011 11:15:14 GMT
Only one of the above is actually bad, though, isn't it.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 30, 2011 11:28:20 GMT
While that is true(which one though? ), I would say they aren't taking as many risks with Sonic at the moment. I mean we aren't likely to get Adventure style gameplay back and they probably aren't going to add playable characters with unique gameplay. I suppose what I am saying they lost their balls and I want a fixed version of Adventure gameplay.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Sept 30, 2011 12:12:18 GMT
that would be nice. Except for the fact that Adventure is sooooo slow, it's a series of the game I really enjoyed expecially for the story. The characters added in adventure 2 were good (Shadow and Rouge, even though I really don't like her much.. >_>)
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Post by ShayMay on Sept 30, 2011 12:15:24 GMT
I mean we aren't likely to get Adventure style gameplay back and they probably aren't going to add playable characters with unique gameplay. I suppose what I am saying they lost their balls and I want a fixed version of Adventure gameplay. No, they grew a brain. I've recently been playing Sonic Adventure DX - Sonic and Tails are as fun as they ever were and Gamma is still okay, but Knuckles, Amy, and Big are all awful. I would like to see some (SOME!) other playable characters at some point, but I don't think that ditching a number of the elements that were to the game's detriment is a sign of weakness. Although I did like the fact that you had to earn your speed in a number of places.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Sept 30, 2011 12:33:38 GMT
I liked in DX Sonic and Tails and partially Amy......the rest was crap. Actually I liked Amy just for the hammer, otherwise it would have been crap too
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Post by Devo DrakeFox on Sept 30, 2011 12:41:14 GMT
I didn't think Amy was too bad in Sonic Adventure other than the fact her story was so short.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 30, 2011 12:49:11 GMT
Amy and Big are awful. I mean fishing isn't good in video games. Period.
Knuckles though, Really?
I really dont think Adventure style has been done properly. Ever.
You see what we got in Adventure was 2 characters racing through levels, 1 explorer, 1 shooter, 1 stealth and 1 fishing. Too jarring, especially seeing as fishing is crap and stealth was never a part of of the series and was [censored]ely implemented, I mean its better to run than hide in the barrel because Zero will just do his thunder shock thing.
Adventure 2 slimmed it down a lot to just Racing, Treasure Hunting and Shooting. It didn't work because you still had 6 charcters and they were all just clones and they didn't take part in the same level.
What it should be (arguably) is you take your Generic Hill Zone.
First you play it as Sonic and you notice some areas you can't get to. At all. Then you play as Tails who can fly to those areas. Then you can play as Knuckles and it turns out some walls can be smashed open, mountains can be scaled and you can glide everywhere. Then for some reason you play as Shadow thinking that it can't be all that different from Sonic and then you see ridable vehicles and you can just blow robots up with them.
To me that what Sonic was about before Rush style took over. Exploration and different characters you could use to explore a bit better. Or you can blast through as Sonic.
My criticism with the Rush/Secret Rings/Unleashed that has taken over is this: Its all just a sticking plaster.
Camera is fixed now and because the game doesn't let you backtrack there is nothing wrong with it.
The mach speed parts are now on train tracks.
The idea that you need to build up momentum to get to the top speed is dead with the boost meter.
Enemies pose no risk to you because you can just run straight through them.
I'm not saying things didn't have to be changed after Sonic 2006. I mean that paragraph with the different characters through the same level: its pointless. But its even more pointless if they can't even get vanilla Sonic to work properly.
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Post by ShayMay on Sept 30, 2011 12:57:43 GMT
That's more S3K style to me, than Adventure style. I agree with what you've said to an extent (especially about the earning speed bit and the sticking plaster remark), but I really don't think the extra characters are necessary. I'd rather just have a really well-done Sonic game, than one that has to make concessions for three characters.
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Post by MentalAnalysis on Sept 30, 2011 13:36:53 GMT
I welcome the ability to play as other characters. Just don't FORCE me to play with them. If I just want to play through the entire game as Sonic, let me. Don't suddenly make me play as Tails in the middle of a level, that's just downright annoying.
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Post by Baron Canier on Sept 30, 2011 20:14:55 GMT
I won't tell why Heroes and 06 are great for me again, no. WALL OF TEXT INCOMING. BRACE FOR IMPACT.
Heroes has more than a few fundamental problems, and I'm not just talking about it's glitchy levels that drop you through the floor or the camera's sudden, but inevitable, betrayal. Those are big issues, but there are other factors that really work against it. Making use of a trio of specialised characters sounds good on paper, but in execution the shortcomings are rather telling: Power is perhaps the worst offender since, in order to make it seem as though they're contributing to your progression through a level, the developers placed obstacles that could only be overcome by that character type. Again, good on paper. Keeps things balanced... yet the problem is that this breaks the flow like a baseball bat impacting upon an unsuspecting shin; every thick wall, every cluster of baddies and every giant fan is another stumbling block. It's awful. People often gripe about enemies having health bars in Heroes, but that's a design decision that was obviously made in order to not render the Power characters utterly redundant, but the problem is that having to smash aside a robot mob in order to get on with your day is really dull. Flight characters rarely come into play naturally, save for accessing high platforms (which are only that high in order to give the Fly characters something to do, as opposed to just putting a spring there) or useless alternate paths. Being forced to Thunder Shoot enemies in order to continue slows things down just as much the Power stuff, too. If the levels had perhaps been more exploratory-centric, rather than glorified straight lines, then they might've been able to contribute more effectively. As it stands? Nnnnope. All of this is made worse due to the game literally telling you what powers to use in the form of hovering computer screens. That's got to be the pinnacle of hand-holding. While I'll admit that would've been fine during the first level, when a new player is still learning the ropes, anything after that initial introduction is just silly. Outside of those issues, some design decisions were quite poor in general, really. I'm unbelievably glad the days of grind rail infested levels are behind us. Team Rose are unwelcome. I single them out because, well, they contribute the least by far: Team Sonic are your obvious hero candidates, Team Dark are a "hard mode" and have a little more going on (and, rather cynically, are basically an advert for the Shadow game) and with Team Chaotix they tried to experiment a little bit with how to change up your level priorities (though whether or not their approach is enjoyable seems to vary from person to person. Personally I rank it as a failure since the levels just weren't built for that sort of thing). Team Rose? Padding. With characters the scratch at your eyeballs. They just made a stupid decision (read: play the same game multiple times) even worse. [[On a minor note, Heroes regresses Amy into a [censored]ing psychopath: at the end of SA she seems to have matured (and states she'll stop chasing Sonic like such a rabid fangirl), then in SA2 she's right back in glomp mode, but still very helpful. Heroes? She throws people off buildings when they refuse to marry her. Yeah.]] The plot is quite a radical departure from both Adventure games (and that's no bad thing, since the darker tones were somewhat misplaced to begin with) and it's pretty simple. Heck, they tell you the premise in the opening: "Robotnik's at it again, aaaw hell the [censored] no". The problem is that it's uneventful until you reach the predictable finale. Nothing especially memorable happens and the declaration at the start ("In three days I'll conquer the world. Come at me, bro!") always struck me as quite random. Having a plot twist at the finale is all well and good, but it occurs far too late and on its own doesn't really mean anything. Also, Heroes once again playing the "Someone smacks Robotnik aside for the final fight" card solidified it into a guaranteed cliche for future titles. It's as if they were working from a checklist or something. Upon first playing Heroes I'd assumed that each Team might face off against different bosses in order to compensate for shared levels. Oooh, how naive that seems now. They don't half phone it in on a few of these fights, to boot; Egg Albatross is just Egg Hawk sitting atop a blimp. The initial excitement of Egg Emporer slowly drains away until it becomes so boring. The nadir of all this is - without a doubt - the way they have droves of grunts substituting an actual boss fight. That's just...shoddy. And they do it multiple times. Then there's the terrible finale against Metal Sonic (or Overlord, whatever). The pre-fight cutscene really built up the menace and they just reduced it to stupidly long, drawn-out fight against a lumbering monster without one jot of urgency. Bah, I say. What a waste. On the bright side, I'm very fond of the visuals in Heroes (levels feel very Sonic-y, unlike the majority of the main series levels) and the area themes - while basically ticking off the same boxes - are varied enough. I also like a good deal of the music. I'm very fond of Egg Fleet for the memorabe sight of Robotnik having his own fleet of battleships. Rail Canyon can get out of my sight, though. Good grief. In the end, while perhaps not the worst entry in the series, Heroes pushed the franchise over the edge it had been teetering on throughout the Adventure games. Throw in the technical shortcomings that everyone's all too familiar with and it's no surprise that it's loathed. Oh yeah, S'06. Whopping big pile of [censored]e with sprinkles.
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Post by Baron Canier on Sept 30, 2011 20:22:13 GMT
Yikes, I did not mean to write that much. My analyses sure can get out of hand sometimes.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Oct 1, 2011 11:24:42 GMT
Agreed. Having the possibility to play sublevels or the same levels of Sonic with other characters later in the game is good, is an extra to higher up the re-play part. ......But if it's an extra! There is nothing bad if those levels are something to, you know, obtain a 100/ compleat score, but if they are imposed it's bad and it confuses you! Wile you're getting into a gameplay you suddenly have to change it radically and can't progress into the story if you don't do that particular level. THAT is annoying! However the alternative that Generations seems to be willing to offers seems good. Other characters for sub levels.
And I also agree with Cain when he states that Amy's character in Heroes (and I'd sudgest also Battles and Free Riders) is quite a kill joy! Wile in Adventures you see the will to progress her character and in Adventure 2 you see that she's still necessary for the economy of the story, Heroes REALLY is a fallback that makes you dislike her! Just as the last games have made her become more usefull and less annoying, Free riders had the same effect on me. Wile her girlish/tomboish/crush for Sonic sides can be actually funny and good for a laugh if well treated, if you stress the Fangirl side, it really just getts annoying. EVEN FOR ME! Which is really a pity because I think Amy can be a really good character for the stoy, not second to Knuckles and probably nither to Tails, if well used.
for the other characters..... Just KILL Big! Leve him for cameos, comics, or party games like the Olympics. Even in a game like Chronicles he felt like too much. Kill Gamma (already done >_>), Keep Omega out of stories and use him alone for a mode like the one in Chronicles but basically keep him in a side. Use Cream alone as a story sidekick for Amy sporadically or a Cameo or a juge like in the Olympics (actually the game in wich I appreciated Cream the most was Chronicals itself! Really a usefull character!!!) Keep the Babylonians for the Rider saga. And Silver.........he was something for me that ither was never to be created ither was meant to DIE with 06', so for me he should be kept out the most possible.
the Chracters to be focused on are really: Tails, Amy, Kncukles and, expecially, Eggman and make him one real Big deal villan! Wacky is good but also something more, he too really had a downfall as a chracter. He is the main antagonist for heven's sake, and he is hardly considered! For a bigger cast then really put in Metal Sonic, Blaze, the Chaotix and Shadow....Rouge might do too.
This also is one of the reason I'm so confident in Generations, because at least the cast was well chosen. I hope that they'll keep it up like this!
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Post by projectzuel on Oct 17, 2011 21:30:00 GMT
So many bad games to choose from, now that's a sign of some bad times. Thankfully Sonic Colours is steering the series towards the right path.
I'd have to go with Sonic Drift for the second worse Sonic game as the levels all felt the same, couldn't see ahead of my character and the controls were [censored].
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Post by Baxter on Oct 27, 2011 14:26:36 GMT
Secret Rings, for one reason above all others: Hearing these... things blaring over and over and over as I forced myself through horribly-designed levels is an experience I still can't get over. Especially #DINO! JUNGLE! IT'S A JUNGLE! WIKI-WOW-WOW!# tl;dr retort to others' nominations -- Labyrinth is adequate for what it is, although Sonic 3D's execution was much better. Sky Patrol is a pretty distraction I'd have felt a tad insulted paying full-price for in 1995. Drift is irrelevant. Blast is an embarrassment. My thoughts on Heroes can be found here. Shadow is the best pre-Unleashed 3D Sonic. Black Knight is a harmless rental. Haven't played Free Riders.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Oct 27, 2011 15:23:49 GMT
Man, "Who's gonna rock the plaice?" is an awesome level theme. No more out of place than Rush's songs anyway.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Oct 28, 2011 19:54:50 GMT
Shadow is the best pre-Unleashed 3D Sonic. Black Knight is a harmless rental. Haven't played Free Riders. I actually liked black knight. wile the gameplay wan't anything special and a bit too harda at times, I really liked a lot the plot and story, the idea of the sword and also the level desine of the old medival world. Com'on it's truly not as bad as everyone classified it.
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Nov 12, 2011 14:32:39 GMT
I never completed most of the more obscure titles, so that may count against them - even 06 was able to be completed by me.
I have traditionally been tied between Shadow 05 and Sonic 06 as the worst games. Shadow 05 gets inflated in status because Shadow's my favorite character, and I hate how they completely butchered what could have been a good - at least, for me - game. (Why does someone who can match Sonic's speed and shoot energy from his hands require cars or guns? Why the excessive language? Why zero details on Shadow's physiology, apart from implied things like superhuman strength? Never mind I hate the 4Kids voice actors with a passion)
Of course, Sonic 06's creepy Mary Sue romance, opening a nasty can of worms with so much time travel, and load times(they are 10% of the game, on average, so that is a nasty chunk bitten off right away), and mostly-forgettable music makes it pretty on par. Never mind it made me rage so much with Silver's desert level. Grrrr. Never before have I been on such good terms with profanity.
So, either or is the second worst to me.
I like SA2 the most though(still play it to this day!), so that'll probably say a lot about my view on games.
As for Heroes, while I saw it as a step down from SA2, I was at first enthused to see Shadow's return. For people who like a more lighthearted game, Heroes could be okay. It is, however, just another case of Sega having interesting ideas but poor execution.
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Post by projectzuel on Nov 29, 2011 22:09:51 GMT
Just started flicking through all my games in my desk draw and I can't actually find Sonic Riders which I thought I still had. I just remembered how god awful it was and I wanted to add to the "reasons why it was bad" pile, considering Sonic Heroes and many of the other games have been analysed in detail here. I must have sold it though I'm surprised I still have Heroes.
Riders can be excused more readily on the story front because it's a racer but they put a surprising amount of wasted effort into it. We have a trio of annoying bird folk (jackass, dumbass and [censored]), a race hosted by a wanted criminal and ancient story gobbledygook. We don't really need it all.
If the gameplay was up to scratch the trite story wouldn't matter but unfortunatly it's poorly constructed stuff. After the initial confusion of the starting run mechanic and the actual racing begins the problems are immediate and prolonged; the character controls are awful. It's ironic that the fuel that apparently moves the boards (air, right?) is exactly how the characters handle like; loose and all over the place with pinball moments often providing a frustrating comedy in some levels.
The lack of control over your character is not just limited to your character but is also woven into other mechanics too. When characters reach a certain velocity they leave behind a wide slipstream wind which others can ride to gain speed. Fine on paper but horrible in execution as it takes away all control when you enter and that's if you even want to enter. There are often times when you can't help but get sucked into the slipstream because the track is too thin and this agrovates more when it chucks you out into a bottemless abyss.
Even attack mechanics are out of your control as they are foolishly part of the boosts. Boosting to catch up with opponents and then unintentionally having to watch your attack animation is a pain, even more so when it leads to you missing a trick jump, leading you down the wrong pathway or (of course) leading you into an bottomless abyss.
The idea of character specific abilites (speed, fly and power) is something taken straight from Sonic Heroes but actually feels more natural in a Sonic racing game as it doesn't slow down the pace and offers exclusive but rarely unfair shortcuts. This though is an addition that's wasted on such a poorly structered racing game.
Sonic Riders is cluttered full of additions that detract from the racing experience and hurt the game itself. The feeling of speed and enpowerment is never given much chance to shine because player control was never considered important.
5/10
Yeah, I did a review but I love reviewing games/reading reviews so you might see me writing more. Unless this is the wrong place or there's general disgust.
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Post by Arch on Nov 29, 2011 23:31:04 GMT
Write a review for STC-O.
Even if you're completely wrong about Riders. <3
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Post by projectzuel on Nov 30, 2011 14:10:54 GMT
Write a review for STC-O. Even if you're completely wrong about Riders. <3 Don't tell me you like Riders!? Blah blah blah etc. F-Zero GX is my Gamecube racer of choice.
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