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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 9, 2012 14:21:18 GMT
is that so? well, I also liked Black knight, graphic and plot wise, but hated both storybook game's gameplay. If they could tweak that to a more generation's style (without the demented story) it should be something to look forward to. I liked the story and the many nostalgic elements of SA2/SA myself. As soon as I heard Throw It All Away I pretty much exploded with joy. In that line, I hope All Stars Racing 2 has a wider music track selection. Particularly more of the final boss themes. It should also be made like Brawl where you can choose themes for each stage or some such for customisation. Oh. How could I forget Amy, being the stereotype of fangirls everywhere she is. :S Goodness he's more voracious than I thought! Even Link wasn't this bold! |
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Feb 9, 2012 18:18:33 GMT
....and he's a blue cartoon hedgehog ladies and gentlemen....  |
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Post by Baxter on Feb 10, 2012 11:08:01 GMT
Black Knight's sales/lack thereof make it difficult to envision a third storybook game. Plus, the Wii's already entered its lame-duck phase, and after the success this team had with Colours it'd be odd seeing them relegated to Sonic and the Real Slim Shady or whatever.
(Of course, this could be a WiiU release developed by someone else, in which case it's game-on.)
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 10, 2012 19:48:05 GMT
If poor sales of a prior title were evidence a series shouldn't continue, Sonic would have ended ages ago. If SEGA - or their developers, whichever - is willing to learn from its mistakes and improve upon error, a sequel can always be better than its predecessors.
Now if only they'd work on that "takes 5 hours to beat" issue.
Though I personally just felt nostalgic at playing Black Knight so this is a case of me going against the grain, which I'm quite fond of. (Seems to make me a hipster)
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Post by Nam on Feb 10, 2012 23:17:31 GMT
If poor sales of a prior title were evidence a series shouldn't continue, Sonic would have ended ages ago. Err, not really. I know Sonic doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the Mega Drive days, but the games still sell quite a bit, probably one of Sega's biggest selling games, at least compared to there other IP's. That's not to say that poor sales of Black Knight has no bearing on a third storybook, as it does, but that Sonic itself probably won't get shut down unless Sega goes under, and then another studio picks up the licence, ruins it, then a third company comes along, tries again, and just makes it worse before it's swiftly forgotten about. Until Sega goes under though, Sonic's there Cash Cow, and they won't stop milking him in some form. |
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Post by Alex on Feb 11, 2012 13:01:38 GMT
Sonic and the Black Knight sold better than most third party games on the Wii, despite not setting the world alight. But, then, if we were to judge anything by sales, we'd have to basically just kill the planet to rectify some awful consumer choices - especially when it comes to Sonic. Take the fact that Generations has been outsold by double by Mario and Sonic at the London Olympics, for example - despite one being unequivocally the best Sonic game in years, and one being yet another disappointing shovel-ware piece of Wii-Stain crap.
I think the real factor that will kill off the story book series is just that it wasn't that well received. Sega are in major fan-pander mode of late (even listening to the complaints against Sonic 4, though [censored] knows if it'll do any good) and seem pretty keen to appeal to the mantra that Sonic games should be about Sonic platforming. It's probably worth them sticking to that, really - especially since they've yet to crack that 100% in the post-Megadrive era (although Generations was prettttty close).
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 11, 2012 17:15:54 GMT
Yeah, sales are a poor judgement of figure, reviews are a better thing to look at. BK doesn't have much in favor of it in that regard either, but whose to say they can't improve? If an idea will make money, it will be developed unless overrun by other money makers.
Consider Klonoa Wii - it was a commercial flop, but is highly praised. Sales mean nothing, except how good or sucky a company is at advertising, I'd think.
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Post by Arch on Feb 12, 2012 13:17:18 GMT
Sales mean everything. Why would a company risk using the same formula when it was catastrophically ripped apart by critics last time. People may have bought that poor game on good reputation and found it to be rubbish. Even with an improvement in the next game, people are likely to stay away as the last game left a bad taste in the mouth. I'm not directly applying this to Black Knight, but I thought it was kind of al right, improving and worsening simultaneously on Secret Rings. I really don't want a third title, though. Not after having played Colours and Generations. I have to call you out on the "nostalgia" you felt for Black Knight, too. Aside from the "Legacy" missions, there is absolutely none that I can think of, aside from maybe "Believe in Myself" playing in the blacksmith's. Although, I do recall you enjoying new games more than old, which also makes "nostalgia" hard to believe. |
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Post by madhair60 on Feb 12, 2012 14:27:34 GMT
Black Knight might actually be the worst Sonic game, I would say. It's objectively worthless.
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Post by Eleonora B.M on Feb 12, 2012 16:38:51 GMT
you're beeing too harsh. .....and lady nimue has a dress so cute that THAT alone arises it from the worst! U_U
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Post by Alex on Feb 12, 2012 18:49:51 GMT
Black Knight might actually be the worst Sonic game, I would say. It's objectively worthless. It's immensely more playable than Secret Rings, so it's definitely not the worst. I think it made the best of a bad concept, really. Playing it for free definitely helped make it a less bitter pill to swallow, though. |
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Post by Calisto on Feb 12, 2012 18:56:37 GMT
But as you said, the best of a bad concept is still not a compliment. It's like asking how you want to die, in a pit of spikes or by fire, either way you're going to die.
As Arch said, with Colours and Generations, if they decided to release a third storybook game, it would possibly be one of the worst decisions they've made since...well, there's a number of bad decisions they've made, pick one.
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Post by Alex on Feb 12, 2012 19:04:55 GMT
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Post by madhair60 on Feb 12, 2012 20:16:40 GMT
Black Knight might actually be the worst Sonic game, I would say. It's objectively worthless. It's immensely more playable than Secret Rings, so it's definitely not the worst. I think it made the best of a bad concept, really. Playing it for free definitely helped make it a less bitter pill to swallow, though. Yeah that is true. I forgot that Secret Rings existed. |
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 13, 2012 21:43:47 GMT
Sales mean everything. Why would a company risk using the same formula when it was catastrophically ripped apart by critics last time. Re-read my post. You are make a horrid error in mixing sales and ratings. Sales are how many units you sell. Ratings are how people actually grade it. I cite Klonoa Wii again - the game was excellent, but it sold very poorly. On the other side of the coin, it assumes what sells well is automatically good, when it can just mean you had good marketing. If Sega assumes it can make money, I don't think they're going to shelve the idea. I have been born twice a Sonic fan. It's nostalgic for me because Crush 40's music. Jun Senoue's. That they used Throw it All Away. It brings back memories of happier times for me - the Adventure era. Never mind, having Shadow actually have a story role rather than just an extra naturally rubbed me the right way. (Plus, to highlight that he is and will continue to be Sonic's most dangerous rival, they even gave him the toughest boss fight) Black Knight might actually be the worst Sonic game, I would say. It's objectively worthless. I'm pretty sure 06 holds the title. Hmm. Not much details; it's torturing like finding out about Sonic Boom 2012. I'm hoping for Silver being selectable; he's usually fond as a party character, so I'm surprised he wasn't in the first. |
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Post by Arch on Feb 14, 2012 8:50:46 GMT
[Crabby post was unnecessary. Basically, I know what sales and ratings are, k?]
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Post by Calisto on Feb 14, 2012 10:55:37 GMT
Sales mean everything. Why would a company risk using the same formula when it was catastrophically ripped apart by critics last time. Re-read my post. You are make a horrid error in mixing sales and ratings. Sales are how many units you sell. Ratings are how people actually grade it. I cite Klonoa Wii again - the game was excellent, but it sold very poorly. On the other side of the coin, it assumes what sells well is automatically good, when it can just mean you had good marketing. If Sega assumes it can make money, I don't think they're going to shelve the idea. Please don't put words into people's mouths like that, Arch had an excellent point and you throw it away because you assumed something wrong. A bad game can usually be seen through poor sales and bad reviews, of which Black Knight has. * A good game can be seen through good sales and good reviews, or poor sales and excellent reviews. Yes, marketing has a ploy here too, hence why CoD makes so many damn sales every year. If you don't advertise the game, the sales won't be as high for a game like Sonic or Klonoa (especially if they're trying to go by nostalgia alone). It's not just Sega that will put games out if they think it'll make them money, you know, it's a common strategy in many, many companies. Sales still mean everything, companies don't give a damn about reviews so long as they're making money and shipping as many copies out as they can. * Just a note, I have played it, did not like it at all. It has mixed reviews, I understand, but it is not a good game... /opinion |
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 15, 2012 8:57:41 GMT
I wonder if there'll be a story? Likely on any handheld version, based on the Olympics series. Sega's very good at changing things up with varying plots and features in the two versions, effectively doubling sales. At least, I hope that's why they do it, rather than to just troll us all. [Crabby post was unnecessary. Basically, I know what sales and ratings are, k?] My apologies; I didn't mean to insult. I was just pointing out sales aren't necessarily reflective of something's quality so much as how well it's marketed. A bad game can usually be seen through poor sales and bad reviews, of which Black Knight has. * A good game can be seen through good sales and good reviews, or poor sales and excellent reviews. What about excellent sales and bad reviews?  Though more seriously, of course I'm not disputing this. On reviewers, however, I tend to go against the grain and find what they find excellent horrid and what they find horrid excellent. Never mind many reviewers strike me as having a "In my day we didn't have all your nifty gadgets" kind of mentality. Like my grandparents or some such. Though at the same time I'm not quite as harsh on bad things as some of my peers so maybe I'm just bonkers. (Only games I truly loathe would be Shadow 05 and Sonic 06; I found such things as the Werehog a bit irritating but nothing that truly sinks the ship for me) I just personally would hope that if Riders can get a sequel than the Storybooks could as we- actually, looking at Free Riders, please SEGA, don't continue the storybooks. As nice as having the Adventure era served on my plate was, I'd much prefer it in a main game than a side one. :S |
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Post by Raxadian on Feb 15, 2012 9:17:18 GMT
I wonder if there'll be a story? Likely on any handheld version, based on the Olympics series. Sega's very good at changing things up with varying plots and features in the two versions, effectively doubling sales. At least, I hope that's why they do it, rather than to just troll us all. I think programmers of each version are just given the basic story, and since the different versions are not coordinated, plus the fact Sonic games always get RUSHED (Hence games like sonic rush) what did you expect? |
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Post by Tanner / Ogilvie on Feb 15, 2012 9:22:41 GMT
I think programmers of each version are just given the basic story, and since the different versions are not coordinated, plus the fact Sonic games always get RUSHED (Hence games like sonic rush) what did you expect? I imagine Sega still has the final say regardless of who develops. Though this alternate versions idea can work wonders - it goes back as far as Pokemon as I recall. It's an excellent way to increase sales without too much extra work. Consider Colors Wii. Plenty of appeal. However, the Sonic fandom is plagued with individuals who only go for one character besides Sonic. So, what's a stroke of marketing genius? Put all the extras in the handheld version. Bam, you've just cashed in on that market. Some devoted fans may even buy both versions to get the full story. Winter Olympics was the same way, what with an actual story being on the handheld version. Not sure if they'd do it for All Stars Racing 2; for Colors in particular such a ploy was genius - they could appeal to the older fans who demand simpler storylines and fewer characters, AND the newer fans who demand other characters. But they already have plenty of characters in the actual game. Stories in these mass crossovers are doable though - I cite the simple yet straightforward story of SSBB's Subspace Emissary as how it can work. |
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