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Post by madhair60 on Mar 21, 2012 18:51:40 GMT
That would have been like three years ago, why you bringin' up old stuff?
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Post by Nam on Mar 21, 2012 20:57:42 GMT
- That an audience besides children should be a concern when producing a film for children. Except, and I base this purely on Bay's Transformers movies, this probably won't be a kids film, it will be an adult action film based on nostalgia of a kids franchise from the current 18-30 demographics childhood. This won't be a film for kids, at least not to some level though there will be a [censored]-tonne of kids toys attached to it, and probably another cartoon spin off. |
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Post by sidewinder on Mar 21, 2012 22:28:57 GMT
God dam it Bay can't do anything right, Dam douch bag
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Mar 22, 2012 14:42:15 GMT
Here's Micheal Bay's response to the fan outcry... Full article here.I wonder if he's aware that in cases like this the words "chill" and "relax" are the ones most guaranteed to make people even more mad? The more I think about this whole "changing the origin" thing, the less sense it makes. Why would aliens be named after Earth Renaissance artists? I realise the mutated goo was always a corny origin (hell, it was very deliberate, as the original comics were spoofing all of the popular comic trends at the time), but this is somehow even more nonsensical and completely pointless. Also, am I the only one who interprets Bay's statements of "edgy, funny and completely loveable" as "annoying, obnoxious, dumb and even offensive"? This is the guy who saw fit to make two racist "gangsta" Autobots, after all. Also, I think Nam's got a damn good point. It's probably not even going to be made for kids at some level; like Transformers, it'll end up being more of an adult action movie designed as much to cash in on their nostalgia for the original series as it is to sell toys. |
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Post by Balls on Mar 22, 2012 15:37:38 GMT
Let's not forget its need to appeal and be accessible to the largest audience possible.
Bay is worthy of ridicule, but never hatred, in my opinion. I don't recall liking any of his work, but I could never say he's bad at his job.
He makes Hollywood blockbusters. That's his job, and he's done nothing but succeed in directing massive films that make ridiculous amounts of money, which is exactly what his job demands of him. If that doesn't appeal to you, you should probably just accept that you don't fit in with that audience and stick to watching films that are more appealing to you personally. It shouldn't particularly matter to you what the masses want to go and see, even if you were take a high-ground and think that they're mindless idiots.
You might think that and no one would be able to tell you you're wrong, but if Bay feels these particular decisions are going to sell more tickets, then all the power to him.
For the particular decision he's made: people like aliens. It may be more nonsensical than the original origin story and it might have lost its slant sense of parody and spoof, but aliens will, inevitably, be more interesting to a lot of people. A lot of people- and these people are not the ones speaking up on forums- think aliens are cool and it'll be just another encouragement to go and see it.
And the men will see it because Megan Fox and explosions will be in it, and the women will see it because Ben Affleck is in it and they're unfortunate enough to be dragged along by their partners who want to go see a film because it has Megan Fox and explosions in it.
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Post by ShayMay on Mar 22, 2012 16:40:19 GMT
I would prefer that people went to see it because it was a good film, personally, than for the promise of titillation and testosterone (there's an argument to be made for those elements constituting a good film, actually, from visual spectacle alone, I'd argue that films need more), but unfortunately Mitch is absolutely right. This isn't being made for fans of the series or people who want a good movie, it's being made to be as mindless and superficial as possible - audiences walk in, see a movie about talking turtles doing stunts, and walk out again without having used their brains once. That's not to say that the original wasn't pretty shallow and stupid (I say that with the utmost respect, I love stupid things), but Bay's meddling does have a layer of cynicism to it: he is doing it to appeal to the masses, rather than for artistic integrity. Although it makes less sense in the long run (the Turtles being from Earth explains their ninja training and their naming), "aliens" reads much better in the synopsis, and overall it's a pretty inconsequential change from a plot perspective. I would much rather the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles remained Mutant Turtles with Ninja training, but as Mitch says, aliens sell.
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Post by madhair60 on Mar 22, 2012 19:03:48 GMT
I would much rather the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles remained Mutant Turtles with Ninja training, but as Mitch says, aliens sell. I misread this as "renamed" and laughed for ages. Sing it to the tune of the 80s cartoon theme: Mutant Turtles With Ninja Training
Mutant Turtles With Ninja Training
Mutant Turtles With Ninja Training
They are Mutant Turtles
With Ninja Training |
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Post by Moo on Mar 22, 2012 22:31:57 GMT
and the women will see it because Ben Affleck is in it No. Also if they're aliens doesnt that just make them...teenage ninjas? Since they'd no doubt be classed as a different race on their potential homeworld. And therefore would probably not be mutants. :T |
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Mar 23, 2012 8:26:40 GMT
He makes Hollywood blockbusters. That's his job, and he's done nothing but succeed in directing massive films that make ridiculous amounts of money, which is exactly what his job demands of him. If that doesn't appeal to you, you should probably just accept that you don't fit in with that audience and stick to watching films that are more appealing to you personally. It shouldn't particularly matter to you what the masses want to go and see, even if you were take a high-ground and think that they're mindless idiots.
See, I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't really agree either, if that makes sense. To me, a good mindless flick would obviously fall apart if you put any thought into it, but it manages to be entertaining enough so that you don't really notice. Indeed, I thought the first Transformers movie was a perfectly serviceable "switch your brain off" movie; it wasn't great, but it kept me entertained. The problem, however, is that in recent times Bay has gone, way, way too far with the mindless stuff, so that I can't ignore the sheer amount of stupid in them anymore. I went to see Revenge of the Fallen after figuring it would be at least entertaining, but there was so much I found flat-out offensive about it; I couldn't even enjoy it on a "switch your brain off" level, as I found myself asking so many questions and so many things didn't make any modicum of sense, even in the context of the movie, that I honestly felt as if it was insulting me at every turn. As a result I didn't go to see Dark of the Moon, even resisting my masochistic desire to see it anyway to see just how bad it was. I'll be trying to do the same with Racist Alien Big-Boobied Explosions (which is what the title of the film might as well be now); I'll try not to take the bait, but a part of me can't help but want to see the film just to see how big of an almight cock-up it will be. True, Bay is paid to make brainless blockbusters, but I'd be inclined to argue that he's really bad at this job. |
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Post by Balls on Mar 23, 2012 9:52:47 GMT
True, Bay is paid to make brainless blockbusters, but I'd be inclined to argue that he's really bad at this job.
Bay's movies all suck, in my opinion. I don't enjoy them. And it doesn't mean I dislike all exploding testosterone fests. Die Hard 4.0, for example, is one of the stupidest and most shameless films I've ever seen- but it's [censored]ing brilliant, and not in an "ironic" or it's so bad it's good way.
But, while Bay may not even make films that are good for what they are they still do what they have to. They're looking for commercial success, with critical success barely mattering.
Everything Michael Bay touches is a huge commercial success. I don't think it's possible to deny he's good at what he does. |
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Mar 23, 2012 16:19:02 GMT
Everything Michael Bay touches is a huge commercial success. I don't think it's possible to deny he's good at what he does.I guess I can't deny that he's good at making money, which ultimately is all that counts for the studios. I don't think he deserves that money, but it's not like my words can change anything (certainly not stupid Internet hyperbole). Yeah, I agree about Die Hard 4.0. That's a case of style over substance done right, in my opinion; it falls apart completely if you put some thought to it, but I find it immensely enjoyable all the same. |
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Mar 24, 2012 20:22:22 GMT
Ultimately, we're all talking about it and most people in this thread will probably go and see it or buy the DVD/blu-ray release. I think that's got to be a success for Bay, given the film's not even made yet.
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Post by Balls on Mar 24, 2012 20:38:51 GMT
I'll see it but damn it I'm damn well not paying for it.
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Post by Mark on Mar 25, 2012 22:50:25 GMT
I sat down and had a thought about this. And while at first I was furious, everyone's made a persuasive argument for why I should try not to give a [censored]. Even if I still think it's one of the worst things you can do, unless you're just wanting to make a film which makes you a lot of money.
I went and watched the old one from 1990, and as cheesy as it is, it's essentially what I want in a Ninja Turtles movie, fighting and a adherence to the source material. Going to watch II, but I'm most certainly avoiding III.
But yeah, Bay's not setting out to please fans, or probably to make a good movie. So I'm taking the advice and not trying to get too ruffled about it.
And I do most of Bay's films suck. Transformers 1 held my attention, so I thought it was at least passable, but I literally fell asleep in the cinema during number 2.
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Post by Charles on Mar 26, 2012 22:28:52 GMT
I wouldn't have thought audiences are going to go "well I wasn't sure about seeing this film about giant turtles with silly names using ninja skills to fight crime when they were mutants, but now they're alien giant turtles with silly names using ninja skills to fight crime, I might give it a go".
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Post by The Shad on Jun 15, 2012 22:38:40 GMT
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