|
|
Post by ChaosX3 on Mar 15, 2004 20:27:10 GMT
Okay, so anyway... Forgot my text...
Project Shadow was started about 50-80 years ago. The goal was to create the ultimate lifeform, a being with immense power. The result was Shadow, a Sonic lookalike. Having not many powers of his own at the time, he was granted with jet boots. His strength grew to great powers. He was able to jump high and control space and time with chaos emeralds. Shadow made friends with Maria Robotnik, a cousin of Ivo's. After Maria was shot on a military raid on the ARK, Shadow swore revenge for his friend- revenge on everyone on earth...
Shadow has proved himself a valuable character, even after near death after his final battle. He was cloned after this accident and lives on today, still as healthy as he was 80 years ago.
QUESTIONS:
Is StC Shadow's story cooler than Sega's?
Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles?
How did Shadow survive?
|
|
|
|
Post by Samface on Mar 15, 2004 20:38:47 GMT
Uh...Omni...there ain't nowt there... Meh. I'z can'z do'z it'z anyway'z. *looks confused at the z's* Erm. So, Shadow. Self-confessed "Ultimate Lifeform". Spectacularly egotistic and smug. Has the coolest pair of shoes in the universe. Thoughts, people. Personally, I like 'im. I haven't played Heroes or Battle through, so I dunno about his "true" backstory, whatever it may be, but I think he has an indefineable quality that pushes him above the regular "evil clone" character-bracket. Questions: Were Sonic Team right to bring him back after the fan outcry following his death in Adventure 2? Should he appear in a 2D game? What do you think it is that makes him so popular? EDIT: Schiesse. Ignore mine.  |
|
|
|
Post by ChaosX3 on Mar 15, 2004 21:05:56 GMT
*Pulls out eraser* MUAHAHA!
Acctually, sorry, I forgot to write anything...
|
|
|
|
Post by Omega 2 on Mar 15, 2004 21:54:32 GMT
Omni, those first two questions are a bit stupid.
Firstly we've only just seen Shadow! Let's get back to that one in a few months. Secondly, Shadow did turn good at the end of Adventure 2. He rembered his real promise to Maria was to make the people on Earth happy. (And even though you might be talking about StC Shadow and not Sega Shadow, I don't see how it would be different. I mean, why should StC leave out Maria? She's an important character to the Story). That last one though does have a point though. How did Shadow survive? I don't like coming up with my own theories and then find out I'm wrong when Sega reveals it.
|
|
|
|
Post by HyperKnux99 on Mar 15, 2004 22:18:41 GMT
QUESTIONS: Is StC Shadow's story cooler than Sega's? Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles? How did Shadow survive? 1) umm we've only seen one pic of him so who knows. 2) he already kinda did that. 3) either it was the fact he was in his hyper mode or he did chao control beofre he started to burn up. |
|
|
|
Post by Samface on Mar 15, 2004 22:21:54 GMT
We do know some about StC Shadow's story...created by "the enemies of the Echidnas", designed to bring about the end of the world...
*giggles at the idea of Chao Control* ;D
It'd be like Super Tails but with Chao instead of Flickies.
"Attack, my pretties!"
|
|
|
|
Post by Baxter on Mar 16, 2004 11:22:12 GMT
Is STC's Shadow story cooler than Sega's?
Can't really say, as we've only seen him in one issue.
Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles?
I prefer him as not just a simple good guy or bad guy, but as the sort of 'in-between' that he is now.
How did Shadow survive?
Well, he is one of the protoypes of the ultimate life. Maybe he just can't be killed?
|
|
|
|
Post by tailschao on Mar 16, 2004 15:35:20 GMT
Shdow, is known as the ultimate lifeform, and as an 'immortal hedgehog', this is why I think he survived SA2 as he's immortal and can't be killed (look on the back of Sonic Adveture 2 battle), or he used Chaos control before he arrive back on mobius....
what i'd like to know is what was up with maria's voice at the end of SA2 as it sound's quite digital, and if the shadow is SH is the real one or not (i think he is) and why were team chaotix asked by robotnik to destroy the capsules on the rail canyon stage, that held the shadow clones/robots.
|
|
WAW the Zonerunner
Boomer
"Hang on, that's not right, I diddled when I should have dood!"
Posts: 71
|
Post by WAW the Zonerunner on Mar 16, 2004 15:54:02 GMT
Is StC Shadow's story cooler than Sega's?Dunno yet, haven't had the full story yet. Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles?Dunno again, let's see how it goes... How did Shadow survive? As far as I'm concerned, the "original" Shadow died a nasty death bruning up in the planet's atmosphere as he fell. But that's just me. Were Sonic Team right to bring him back after the fan outcry following his death in Adventure 2?Yes and no. No because it underminded the SA2 ending, and yes because... because... Well, it shutted up the fanboys screaming and wailing wanting him back.  Should he appear in a 2D game?Question: Will there ever be another 2D game? What do you think it is that makes him so popular?I say: 1) because he's a hedgehog (considering the popularity of Sonic) 2) he was created as a rival to Sonic and 3) some stereotypical teens love the whole "angst thing" going on with Shadow. To be honest I feel rather sorry for the black hedgehog. The amount of hype that I've heard before SA2, the massive flame wars that has happened at the end of SA2 and the stereotypes that he keeps getting slammed into time and again by the fans makes me look at Shadow and think are you really worth all this?I don't hate Shadow, I just see him with a massive neon sign pointing at him reading "Overrated!"
|
|
|
|
Post by Sin on Mar 16, 2004 18:32:07 GMT
I hate the word overrated. It is a short way of saying "because I don't like this character everyone else shouldn't either."
I'll ignore the first question since we really don't know yet.
Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles?
Shadow is kinda good but not in the same sense that Knuckles is good. Shadow is an evil character that does good because of the situation. The proper term for them is anti-hero, and I love them and that is why I really like Shadow as a character.
How did Shadow survive?
Don't bother wasting your time thinking about this, Sega will never tell us. Along with Sonics and Knuckles past, they will keep it a mystery. But I do think that Shadow is the real ultimate life form and that he is the same one in all three games he is in. It is proven in Sonic Heroes that he remembers things about ARK and Sonic Team wouldn't do something cleaver like stick someone else's mind into his body. This is a Sonic game not Final Fantasy.
I am going to answer Sams questions because I am in the mood.
Were Sonic Team right to bring him back after the fan outcry following his death in Adventure 2?
To be honest, I have no idea. It would have made his death more powerful but would have been a waste of a good character. So I just don't know.
Should he appear in a 2D game?
If you mean 2D as in "sprites" then he already had, Sonic Battle. But since I presume you mean a game like Sonic Advanced I will concentrate on that. The only Sonic 2D games are on the GBA and since they have limited cart space I would rather they made better levels then added him in. In my opinion, Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are all you need on any advanced game.
What do you think it is that makes him so popular?
He's cool, arrogant, has a dark personality and a nice colour scheme. If that doesn't appeal to you then fine, but Shadow haters should start getting used to him since he is clearly more then just a one hit wonder.
This is just my opinion so if you disagree with me then meh....
|
|
|
|
Post by ChaosX3 on Mar 16, 2004 22:55:57 GMT
You do KINDA know Shadow's story- it's not the ARK one but that Shadow is made by the ancient enemies of echidnas.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fangking Omega on Mar 16, 2004 23:13:24 GMT
[quoteIs StC Shadow's story cooler than Sega's?[/quote] StC's was created by enemies of the echidnas, we can assume this means the Drakons. Yes, I can really see why the Drakons would start making a hedgehog and never finishing it  Maybe there's a reason that they did it, we'll find out. I think, judging by what we currently know, The SA2 background story of Shadow is better. I think Omni is suggesting this happens in the comics, not if it happened in the games. Well, he was created to destroy the echidnas (it seems), and he'll probably end up turning against Zachary, so I guess he'll sorta be fulfilling the Drakon's evil ideas while thwarting evil at the same time... *breathe* But, I don't mind how it happens. Up to the writers of our god... um... STC We don't know the truth and never will ^^ I always get flamed for my theory that the Heroes Shadow is not the one from SA2, and people always use what the manual says about Shadow and Shadow's memories during the game... With the events at the end of SA2, I don't think that he has Chaos Controlled his way out of death. No emeralds to use, no energy left. Then, in Heroes he fails to remember Sonic, but remembers some stuff about Rouge and space... personally, I just think that was Sonic Team's blip. Then another flaw with my theory... why was Shadow on his lonesome in the base? But something to wonder, how the mushroom did he get there? Why does Omega see him as a robot? Unless he was a robot from the start... But Omega says stuff about cloning... Sonic Team, I hate you and your stupid loose ends... Call me wrong. Almost everyone else does. If he's a clone or robotic copy, I'd say it works. If it's the original, I want it to be explained before I accept it. Still, however cool he may be, his death made him unique, and made the ending more dramatic. So, although he was pretty much needed for Heroes, it doesn't quite work. No. We already have Sonic. I suppose it wouldn't matter if he was a boss, but a playable character, no. The fact that he's evil. People always love the stereotypical mysterious villain who ends up not being really that bad at all. The shoes perhaps? His awesome abilities? His "cool" voice (well, his american dub is the one of the few along with Eggman that doesn't make me wanna go psycho) that makes him sound evil? The fact he's like Sonic but better? Oh, he'd suck without the shoes. |
|
WAW the Zonerunner
Boomer
"Hang on, that's not right, I diddled when I should have dood!"
Posts: 71
|
Post by WAW the Zonerunner on Mar 17, 2004 0:05:42 GMT
I don't really hate Shadow myself, I think he's not half bad at the end of the day, it's just how he's been interpreted by some of the more, shall I say "extreme" fans of the Sonic franchise that bugs me. |
|
|
|
Post by Omega Wants Cake on Mar 17, 2004 17:10:24 GMT
I suppose I should say this first and get it out of the way... Shadow is Definetely a fanservice, Definetely. He has all the trademarks of the Japanese Cool troubled loner character cliche, designed to attract the naughty tendencies of the typical human female. But that doesn't make him by all means a bad character. ^_^ For a start his motivation for his hatred against humanity is understandable, he has no family to speak of, only his mission. Another point is that he is ment to be a weapon, more then he is a creature, and delving between those lines is I find quite fascinating .  I for one was annoyed with Shadow at first, seeing him as Sonics Vegetta as is most common in all forms of animated media, but I eventually started to enjoy his appearences, and he does have one awsome dub voice ;D. He has a cool design (compared to all those other lame loner Sonic clone characters),and you've got to love those sneakers ;D.... As for his return......Well I could see it comming a Mile of. He's too populur to just be a one shot. Whether or not he survived his fall from space. (Personaly I think he did, but not by Chaos Control....) is entirely debateable.... Phew..... That was pretty long |
|
|
|
Post by Blizz on Mar 20, 2004 13:55:07 GMT
Okay I've got a couple of ideas about Shadow: In STC the Drakons started on Shadow but couldn't finish because of the whole Chaos incident. It's the same Shadow throughout the last few games. I'm guess this through a few quotes in Heores: "Space......Did you say SPACE?" "Heh, some things never change do they?" "Okay guys, we'll buy you some time. That way you can use your super powers." Remembering how he and Super defeated the Biolizard there I think....They should bring Shadow into Sonic Advance 4 if they're making one.
|
|
|
|
Post by Samface on Mar 20, 2004 21:54:01 GMT
I suppose I should say this first and get it out of the way... Shadow is Definetely a fanservice, Definetely. Oh, hell yeah. You can just see the board meeting. Naka: "Right, we've got this evil version of Sonic. Let's make him cool." Designer 1: "Okay, he should be black-furred. Black's a cool colour." Designer 2: "I say red. Red's cool too." Naka: "Okay, he can be black with red bits." Designer 3: "His spines should stick out in a cool way." Naka: " Definitely. Anything else?" Designer 4: "Let's give him really cool shoes. Way cooler than Sonic's." Naka: "Okay. Personality?" Designer 2: "Mysterious loner. Y'know, the sort of guy that would wear a long leather jacket and walk down a smoky alley on his own and be all broody." Naka: "Okay, so he's Angel in hedgehog form." Designer 3: "Oh, and he should be all, 'Puny humans.' Really arrogant." Designer 1: "And have a tragic past for the teenage fangirls to really identify with." Naka: "Yep. Now, what about a name?" Designer 5: "Spectre's a cool name." Naka: "It is, but we need to leave one cool name for the fans to make up characters and name them that." Designer 2: "Okay - Shadow." Naka: "Bingo! Everyone to the bank for a party of MONEY!" So yeah, he's totally created from the concept of 'evil cool'. But like I said before, he's got a certain quality that lifts him up from just being cliché. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Omega Wants Cake on Mar 20, 2004 22:15:13 GMT
...and whats that children? ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Samface on Mar 20, 2004 22:26:26 GMT
What's what? The "certain quality"? Like I said at the start of the topic, I can't quite put my finger on it...
|
|
Dimension
Big Time Boomer
forward thinking product
Posts: 462
|
Post by Dimension on Mar 20, 2004 23:30:35 GMT
QUESTIONS: Is StC Shadow's story cooler than Sega's?Dunno, never thought anything much of the sega story, hedgehog meets friend, friend dies, hedgehog feels scarred, promises revenge... nothing special really, definately heard better histories, so chances are that yes, i'll personally find the stc past more interesting, I mean, if STC can actually make me find chaos even slightly intimidating then it's bound to do something for me right? Should Shadow turn good like Knuckles?For me it doesn't really matter, Knuckles is, in my eyes, sonic's true adversary, Shad's just a fill in, probably for the reasons that A) Sonic team ran out of ideas for Knuckles and/or B) Knuckles has become too popular to fit in a real bad guy role, i'm pretty sure sega would live to regret making a game where Knuckles wasn't playable in again But anyway if I had to say on good or bad... yes, he should become good, I don't like the idea of Robotnik harboring creatures as his lackeys, machines make far cooler enemies in this sense anyway because after all, the entire sonic thing for me is all about nature against machines, trying to blur the lines does nothing for me, though I guess that makes Shadow a bit of a rebel against that cliché, yet another thing people will find to be in his favour I guess  How did Shadow survive?Don't know, don't care. might as well answer the other questions too, since i'm having an anti-Shadow rant Were Sonic Team right to bring him back after the fan outcry following his death in Adventure 2?Of course they were, shadow's a character made to make people go 'ooh, he's cool', the death of a character tailored to the wishes of the game's target audience is bound to be unpopular. Should he appear in a 2D game?No, most definately not, who the hell wants to play as a character identicle to sonic with the exception of looks? True, Amy seems to fill in that roll in SAdv 2 but her character suggests more of a growing character and that in itself adds something to the game. Besides, the 2D games are beyond needing a cheap story line and thus needing an adversary for each charater, they're just fun and for me, shadow represents story telling in the sonic games, so no, no no no no no and may I say once more? NO! What do you think it is that makes him so popular?Easy question, he's popular because that's how he was designed to be He's got what for modern sonic games would be classed as a dark attitude which works perfectly with the rock music loving types who make up the majority of the modern audience, his colour scheme suits what the same audience like to wear and look like and finally, because he's a body double of sonic, meaning he'll get as much chance as he needs to prove himself to the fans. I think it also helps that every other character designed by Sega for the games since the saturn came along have been all cutesy, happy and nice, people like to think of shad as something different, I guess that helps rouge in all her [censored]ty wonder too. (heh, saw rouge being referred to as that did we admins? ;D) alright i'm spent, may I finish in just saying, I don't absolutely hate shadow, I feel sorry for him, for me he was never more than a replacement while Knuckles moved onto bigger, better things (getting your own enemy can do that for you) and if that doesn't make you feel for a character then I don't know what will. Also, the fact that his debut game was a little short of lacklustre helps me feel more sympathetic, poor hedgey, I keep my faith though, perhaps Sega will go against the grain and do something original that might gain me just a little respect for the character and, though I can't see it happening, it never hurts to dream |
|
|
|
Post by d3k on Mar 20, 2004 23:46:18 GMT
Correct me if im wrong...
But shouldnt she be called Maria Kintobor? and not robotnik?
|
|
|
|
Post by Omega Wants Cake on Mar 21, 2004 0:06:27 GMT
Not in the Sega Games where the Kintobor story means Smeg and Robotnik was Called Eggman who was just some plump scientist trying to take over the world for no reason in particular....  |
|
|
|
Post by Samface on Mar 21, 2004 0:13:38 GMT
I think it goes like this:
The Kintobor story was accepted as canon by Segas of America and Europe. Then when Adventure came out they realised they could never dub well enough to make it look like Sonic and co were saying "Robotnik" when their lips were making the name "Eggman". So they decided to have them call him "Eggman" in an insulting way, and have Robotnik be the only person to use his name, since his Adventure 1 model had no visible mouth.
Obviously, Sega of Japan were cheerfully unaware of this, so they quite happily wrote the Adventure 2 story which shoots the "Kintobor" story to pieces. So said story was quickly ignored, and the official word (from Naka-san himself) is that Robotnik has always been Robotnik, and he has adopted the pseudonym "Eggman" for...some reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by Omega Wants Cake on Mar 21, 2004 0:30:14 GMT
His Mother was a French Hen ;D
|
|
Dimension
Big Time Boomer
forward thinking product
Posts: 462
|
Post by Dimension on Mar 21, 2004 2:39:59 GMT
His Mother was a French Hen ;D ah, so the chicken came before the egg? |
|
|
|
Post by ChaosX3 on Mar 21, 2004 2:49:15 GMT
*Budum PSSH*
|
|
