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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Apr 23, 2008 23:33:02 GMT
Yeah, there's definitely some bad of STC as well. Like the way they stop the Metallix brotherhood. I took the Brotherhood's defeat as being secondary in that arc as to finding out that Sonic created Robotnik, and I can't really think of any other way that they could have stopped the Brotherhood other than with the self-destruct. Actually, now that I think about it, wasn't that the point of them going back in time in the first place, to make sure that they could use it? But yeah, Archie, I bought a few around the time of Shadow's arrival, but couldn't really get into it. Just didn't feel like the story telling was all that good. Might be different now tho. I remember one of them was like Dragonball Z. Literally nothing happened except Doctor Robotnik synthesising a Metal Sonic. That was it. |
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Ed
Ex-Hume
Satan (Apparently)
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Post by Ed on Apr 24, 2008 0:04:27 GMT
i really which as a fan base we'd pull our snobish head out of our asses sonic the comic is not some holy untouchable grail of compressed awesome.... (alot of the humor is so british it some times bordered on the beano making it only for us, as much as some archie is very american a deal to an american audience... we're not better... were different.) See... I get what you're saying, but it nibbles at an attitude that's always bugged me. The idea that because you like STC and Archie's comic also has Sonic, that therefore there's some deep connection between the two. That liking one and not caring for the other indicates some kind of deep snobbery because, basically, it's all the same sort of thing. And granted, for most people who are Sonic fans before they're STC fans, this may be true. Me, I'm a fan of STC and I've never rated Archie's Sonic (which is a pity since I adored their Turtles line). Fair play to the Archie crowd, I have a lot of time particularly for the new people who grew up with the character and obviously have a huge amount of passion. The stories look bright and fun and exciting, perhaps thoughtful, and I think it's brilliant they're enthusing people again and I genuinely wish them big success. But basically, all the two comics have is that they're all-ages adventure things and share the same license. Which superficially is a big thing, but their attitudes, the structure of their stories, the values, the influences, everything else it seems to me is pretty well poles apart. If you just want some blue and spiky entertainment, it makes sense to hop to Archie and doesn't make sense to be snobbish about it. Why not, he's a cracking character. But if you want to see something that reflects and complements STC... why would you look to Archie? There is so much else out there. Most obviously, Nigel's later work on 2000AD, or the creators' big influences -- Miyazaki, the Fantastic Four (especially the Lee/Kirby originals). And beyond that, there's so much else out there which deserves a punt. Archie doesn't grab you? Don't feel guilty because you liked STC and ought to like this -- get out there and find something that DOES make you excited! Try Lions, Tigers and Bears. Or Abadazad. What about Bone? The work of Barks, Rosa, Herge etc. I've been meaning to get into Godland and Fables for a long time myself. I liked STC's leanness and imaginative scope, and I admire that in Gargoyles. I liked Nigel's boldness with characters and sense of fun enjoy that in Mark Waid's stuff. But I'm sure there's plenty more stuff out there -- great, great stories, as good and better than STC, just begging to be recommended. Like I say, if you buy Archie and love it, truly love it, that's brilliant. Brilliant. That's what's supposed to happen. But it annoys me, angers me, even, that people persist buying Archie out of some kind of corporate loyalty, or pressure others to do so. Because chances are something that person would enjoy more is currently spurting blood from the neck because nobody gave it a chance. |
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Post by Alex on Apr 24, 2008 0:09:00 GMT
Wow... Archie has abysmal art direction... I'd rather read an entire 12-issue comic of Cassanovas' Sonic.
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Post by Matt on Apr 24, 2008 1:02:12 GMT
i really which as a fan base we'd pull our snobish head out of our asses sonic the comic is not some holy untouchable grail of compressed awesome.... (alot of the humor is so british it some times bordered on the beano making it only for us, as much as some archie is very american a deal to an american audience... we're not better... were different.) See... I get what you're saying, but it nibbles at an attitude that's always bugged me. The idea that because you like STC and Archie's comic also has Sonic, that therefore there's some deep connection between the two. That liking one and not caring for the other indicates some kind of deep snobbery because, basically, it's all the same sort of thing. And granted, for most people who are Sonic fans before they're STC fans, this may be true. Me, I'm a fan of STC and I've never rated Archie's Sonic (which is a pity since I adored their Turtles line). Fair play to the Archie crowd, I have a lot of time particularly for the new people who grew up with the character and obviously have a huge amount of passion. The stories look bright and fun and exciting, perhaps thoughtful, and I think it's brilliant they're enthusing people again and I genuinely wish them big success. But basically, all the two comics have is that they're all-ages adventure things and share the same license. Which superficially is a big thing, but their attitudes, the structure of their stories, the values, the influences, everything else it seems to me is pretty well poles apart. If you just want some blue and spiky entertainment, it makes sense to hop to Archie and doesn't make sense to be snobbish about it. Why not, he's a cracking character. But if you want to see something that reflects and complements STC... why would you look to Archie? There is so much else out there. Most obviously, Nigel's later work on 2000AD, or the creators' big influences -- Miyazaki, the Fantastic Four (especially the Lee/Kirby originals). And beyond that, there's so much else out there which deserves a punt. Archie doesn't grab you? Don't feel guilty because you liked STC and ought to like this -- get out there and find something that DOES make you excited! Try Lions, Tigers and Bears. Or Abadazad. What about Bone? The work of Barks, Rosa, Herge etc. I've been meaning to get into Godland and Fables for a long time myself. I liked STC's leanness and imaginative scope, and I admire that in Gargoyles. I liked Nigel's boldness with characters and sense of fun enjoy that in Mark Waid's stuff. But I'm sure there's plenty more stuff out there -- great, great stories, as good and better than STC, just begging to be recommended. Like I say, if you buy Archie and love it, truly love it, that's brilliant. Brilliant. That's what's supposed to happen. But it annoys me, angers me, even, that people persist buying Archie out of some kind of corporate loyalty, or pressure others to do so. Because chances are something that person would enjoy more is currently spurting blood from the neck because nobody gave it a chance. but of course there you've hit on the problem exactly and not realized it, when people talk about Archie, they do compare (which I guess is only natural) even if a movie deviates so far from the source material (say a book) to only be slightly inspired by it people will always compare the two, and compare the movie to anything else spun off from the same original material. In that respect it's difficult to move away from comparison, but secondly and more importantly we don't. People laugh at archie often saying that not as good as when stc did... just mere posts above Ray pointed out 175 of Archie was good but not as good as when johnny died. Like I said in post you quoted and it even the point you make, we're a different comic, but people being Snobbish seem to compare (and this is almost usually always that case) the quality of stc over that of Archie, when Archie bad it's awful but when stc bad it only a little lame. It's not about liking one and not liking the other, it's about not liking on and then saying ha stc's better better and any one else that thinks otherwise is a stupid american that doesn't understand that super sonic is far superior evil. sure you can personally hate it, you can prefer stc, and like you said if you want something similar to stc, the most obvious bet (Archie) is not always the best, 2000 ad often has a lot in common with stc. I'm not saying you have to like it at all, only that the associated attitude of haha look what stupid Archie did they made characters kiss, lol that stupid stc would never stop that low, Glad we got the better comic. |
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Apr 24, 2008 1:04:16 GMT
Blimey, Adamis just reignited my interest in Archie. Those few pages are almost up there with STC's best. They really aren't. Some of the pages on here are pretty good. But they pale next to STC's best. You need to crack open "The Evil Empire" and "The Return of Chaotix" for the first time in a long while before you make comments like that. |
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Post by Super Sonic on Apr 24, 2008 7:19:39 GMT
Yeah those pictures don't come close to Running Wild.  |
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Post by Baxter on Apr 24, 2008 8:22:40 GMT
I did say "almost" up there...
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
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Post by Adamis on Apr 24, 2008 9:19:38 GMT
That's called "opinion".  Also, I understand most of you preferring StC because you grew up with it, have been used to a type of storytelling/art. In Archie, being from a different culture, you cannot find some Elson-inspired art, Kitching-like stories because their vision of storytelling is much different. You will not find StC in Archie. That's why Archie looks so strange in your eyes. "Abysmal art"? No (ok, not always, Ron Lim was awful xD) just different style. Spaz and Tracy Yardley are awesome IMO. "Awful stories"? Not always. Just different. StC had 5 and 7-paged stories. Each story had to devellop something quickly. You had an issue every forthnight. Archie has more or less 20 pages of story (sometimes with a back-up) and an issue each month. That's a totally different rythm. I'm absolutely not saying "zomg archie's good no matter what you think". I prefer "don't bash it until you've read several, full issues". Personnaly, I enjoy both of them, maybe it's because I didn't grew up with them? In Belgium we had, what, 6 issues of StC translated in french back in 1994-95. That's all. (the last issue contained the story in Casino Night Zone with Sonic, Porker and the Marxio Bros) I got some Archie from a friend a few years ago then I bought some StC on ebay. That's how I met both of them almost on the same time. I prefer StC because of the art and sories, but I think I know why: they're closer to what I'm used to read here. Sure we have some US comics translated here (we're not that ignorants ) but before Archie, I never red them. Now that I'm used to read Archie-the US style of storytelling then- I've bought some US comics and I quite enjoy them, I like to see where it's different, how it would have been done here, etc. (I find that quite amusing). Really, I don't like people being so harsh on StC or Archie when they don't know it a bit. Before reading comics like "Hellboy", "Bone" or even "Calvin & Hobbes", I thought they were really bad and I critisized them before knowing them. Now that I've read them, well, I have the entire collection |
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Post by The Shad on Apr 24, 2008 9:23:22 GMT
You will not find StC in Archie. Issue 134. |
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
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Post by Adamis on Apr 24, 2008 9:38:56 GMT
Shad, that's called a cameo by a fan who worked on the book  |
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Post by The Shad on Apr 24, 2008 9:44:35 GMT
Shad, that's called a cameo by a fan who worked on the book There's a hell of a lot of 'em. Metamorpha, Bob Beaky, Tekno, Ebony, Pyjamas, Shortfuse... there's probably more in the massive crowd scenes. |
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
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Post by Adamis on Apr 24, 2008 9:47:24 GMT
That is still called a cameo. One cameo out of +200 issues, man, that's a lot |
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Post by The Shad on Apr 24, 2008 9:49:25 GMT
Yeah, but they didn't get the rights to 'em.
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
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Post by Adamis on Apr 24, 2008 9:54:19 GMT
They'd need the rights if they want to use those characters permanently. But they don't.
And Archie didn't ask the artist to put those StC characters in the pages. Jon Gray is a fan and wanted to give hommage to StC by insering a few characters in the crowd, that's all.
Archie will never use them for their stories. They have enough characters for that.
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Post by Pete on Apr 24, 2008 10:28:48 GMT
Okay, okay! This wasn't meant to turn out a "STC is better than Archie" debate, despite how inevitable it was going to turn out that way.
If you don't like Archie, then don't post here. I was under the impression that this was to highlight the good points of Archie stuff, of which it does have some most impressive moments.
Personally, I began dipping my toe into Archie around issue #125, and I've read every issue since. Adamis is right, it's just another way of looking at the same character. Sure, Archie has waaaay too many characters, but recently, that cast has been trimmed down, and what's there is pretty good.
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Post by The Shad on Apr 24, 2008 11:09:38 GMT
Okay, sorry for coming across as such an Archie hater.
I quite like it (despite evidence to contrary). Knuckles in particular, when read all together, is quite good. Flynn is an excellent writer. Lovely art all around. Which is why everything I've posted in a negative light was from OLD comics, which weren't great. Much like early STC.
After all STC didn't really hit its stride till... what? Sonic CD adaption? After countless side stories, many of which were, lets face it, not overly good.
Ultimately, I do, and will continue to, prefer STC, as its the one I grew up with. Archie vs. STC is a pointless debate, as the two are very different beasts. Its like comparing Superman to Oliver Twist. There are similarities, but one should not be labelled lesser than the other because its "different," whether it be stylistically, thematically or whatever.
Although I think we can all agree, Bean and Finetivus are awesome.
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Post by Pete on Apr 24, 2008 11:14:39 GMT
Although I think we can all agree, Bean and Finetivus are awesome. Mother[censored]ing truth! |
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Post by Super Sonic on Apr 24, 2008 15:31:07 GMT
Although I think we can all agree, Bean and Finetivus are awesome. I don't see what's so special about either of them, |
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Post by Nam on Apr 24, 2008 16:13:27 GMT
This thread has made me actually want to get into Archie.
Likewise the images of Robotnik beating Sonic in a giant mech that somebody posted have seriously made me want Robotnik back in STC-O.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Apr 24, 2008 16:37:21 GMT
Ive not seen many scans of Archie but apart from obviously inferior plots (*kaff*) the other thing I notice is the art is soooo variable. Some of it I really can't stand but on the other hand, some of it isnt that dissimilar to say, Rob Corona's work.  |
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Post by Charles on Apr 24, 2008 19:12:38 GMT
Ian Flynn writes a fun Sonic, oh yes. THESE ARE ALL OLD AND DO NOT REFLECT ON THE QUALITY OF CURRENT ISSUES I am so glad you were fired, Ken Penders. Though I love that in the Locke/Knuckles pages, Knuckles comes off as being gay and possibly only turning to Julie-Su to fit social norms. Also, the echidna's have given a spiritual name to "getting a stiffie". |
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Ed
Ex-Hume
Satan (Apparently)
Posts: 4,320
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Post by Ed on Apr 24, 2008 19:14:06 GMT
Kintobor: Yeah, I think those are fair points. I guess it's just the comparisons that bug me out. Or at least, people comparing if the only point is to moan.
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Post by Sin on Apr 24, 2008 19:32:35 GMT
I've always loved that 2 panel joke of Knuckles asking why girls and boys get together and his old man spitting out his coffee. Thanks for uploading the rest of the strip, it is good to know the context of where the panels come from.
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Post by The Shad on Apr 24, 2008 21:18:02 GMT
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Apr 24, 2008 21:38:14 GMT
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