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Post by Robert Frazer on Dec 29, 2010 23:53:14 GMT
That's alright then, sorry for misapprehending and thanks for clarifying. I think we can all agree that it would have been bad form to split off in the lobby, but as you say that's not an issue here.
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Post by Baron Canier on Dec 30, 2010 0:16:21 GMT
So, the film wasn't perfect by any means but I'd call it a worthwhile evening, although not for a repeat viewing. As a skeleton on which to breathe the flesh of a franchise it has decent strength. But it ended with such finality. I mean, Flynn's dead, the event of which basically nuked everything. Sam then removed The Grid from its network and made it into a necklace. Where do you go after destroying your own premise?
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Post by Robert Frazer on Dec 30, 2010 0:41:00 GMT
I suppose that he would just plug it in to another computer - suddenly the Grid is taken away from the gentle isolation of the arcade cellar and its borders are invaded by the Big Bad Internet! Can the system survive when the streets are flooded with spambots, Trojans, DRM and 1337?
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Post by Raxadian on Dec 30, 2010 2:10:45 GMT
Well, is everything you can expect in a sequel, including the fact is not as good as the original... may see it when the DVD comes out...
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 30, 2010 8:26:46 GMT
I suppose that he would just plug it in to another computer - suddenly the Grid is taken away from the gentle isolation of the arcade cellar and its borders are invaded by the Big Bad Internet! Can the system survive when the streets are flooded with spambots, Trojans, DRM and 1337? Isn't that what became of ReBoot?!
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Post by Baron Canier on Dec 30, 2010 12:34:14 GMT
I suppose that he would just plug it in to another computer Except everyone in The Grid is dead. =/
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 31, 2010 0:58:24 GMT
Back up disk?
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Post by Baron Canier on Jan 2, 2011 13:25:16 GMT
So, are we actually going to discuss all the plot holes in this film? Thoughts on what we'd like to see in a sequel? Sod it, I'm going to try and address all the bits of this film that just didn't add up. You have seen the film yet? YOU CAN'T STOP HERE; THIS IS SPOILER COUNTRY. - How did Clu send the page? The Grid is a closed-off system beneath Flynn's Arcade. It has no means of outside communication, yet we're told Clu somehow managed to send a message to the real world. How he did it - how he instigated the plot of the film - is never explained.
I liked the implication that the only reason Clu could reach Alan in particular was because Alan was still using an outmoded means of communication: his pager.
- Why did he wait so long before sending the page? Flynn was missing for over two decades real-time, which translates to over half a million years in The Grid. What was Clu doing the entire time? Why not send the page immediately after overthrowing Flynn?
Ideally, I would've had a scene where Clu explains that he's been trying to contact the outside world for years. However, every time the signal was either too weak, or Flynn interfered and ruined the execution. Signals they thought were a success never summoned a User (because means of communication had moved on; nobody used pagers anymore). Hence why it took so long.
Like I said; ideally. Because otherwise Clu's just a massive time waster.
- Clu's intent was obviously to lure someone to The Grid. For what purpose? To lure out Flynn? Clu didn't even know who was going to arrive! He sent the page to Alan and got Sam instead. What if some random person, with no connection to Flynn whatsoever, had warped in?
- Clu doesn't even seem to be aware that someone new has entered The Grid. He only notices Sam is unusual when Jarvis lists him as 'Unknown'. Is Clu even paying attention?
- How does making "the perfect system" consist of destroying all the software required to run it? Wouldn't that make it harder to get things done?
- Sam would've made the perfect hostage to lure out Flynn and Quorra. Instead Clu tries to kill Sam. What would that accomplish? Flynn would be none the wiser about Sam being in The Grid and Clu would've lost his ideal bargaining chip.
- How did Flynn elude Clu for so long? He was just hiding in the mountains. Clu had basically infinite time and resources (along with flying vehicles) to track down Flynn. Search every inch of The Grid! Flynn's not going anywhere! We don't even get a message that they're conducting regular searches. Something like:
"The mountain patrols have returned, sir. Consistent results." "So, they failed."
Just a little quip like that and it wouldn't have been an issue. As it stands? Pretty big plot hole.
- Flynn's on the run from an entire army, right? So why does his hideout have an open balcony, completely lit up against the night sky? Judging by all the books, furniture and other trinkets he and Quorra have stayed in one place for quite some time and are pretty much on display for any passerby. That's the opposite of hiding.
Would've preferred it if they'd been more nomadic - so as to avoid the patrols, yes? - and actually use his super-God-User powers to construct a new home from the surrounding landscape.
- The random, unexplained appearance of a pig. Which I'll discuss in a minute...
- If Clu can just "rectify" anyone he chooses, then why are there still free-thinking Programs in The Grid? Shouldn't he just rectify everyone and get it over with?
- How are the ISOs supposed to wipe out disease and overhaul science? All right, the odds of them arising randomly from Grid code are...infinitesimal, but how does that give them so many more applications than the other Programs running around The Grid? The non-ISO Programs are alive enough to deceive, fear death, feel pain and mourn their dead. What makes ISOs special aside from their origins?
- Why did Clu need to get Flynn's disc before he left? Flynn mentions that now the portal's open Clu can, if he wants, just leave The Grid...but he "wants the secrets on my disc". What secrets? Discs just keep a back-up of your experiences while in The Grid. Flynn's disc won't give Clu any sort of power. He could just come back later and get it, anyway. Flynn's not going anywhere.
I've heard people say (as "fact") that Flynn's disc was required to let Clu leave because it's the disc of a User. Ignoring the fact that the film doesn't say that, it doesn't make sense: Clu plans to have an army of thousands enter the real world, which would imply that each individual Program would need Flynn's disc in order to leave. Considering Flynn is deathly afraid of Clu invading Earth, that's clearly not the case.
The disc - infuriatingly - is the purest form of plot device, and it's never justified.
- Even before Sam & Co. arrived at the Rectifier Site, CLU already has lots of Programs under his direct command (read: they're orange, and therefore evil). Enough to have them on random patrols in Recognizers looking for hobo Programs to abduct. So, why didn't he have more than a handful of troops guarding Flynn's disc? Granted, Rinzler was amongst them, but still. It's not like he didn't have men to spare. Even worse are the guys manning the consoles; when they see Sam they just hide. They don't bother sounding an alarm, don battle armour or release any security droids. Their reaction is equivalent to an ostrich burying its head in the damn sand; this is the type of thing I'd expect from Spaceballs, not a movie trying to be serious.
- Doesn't removing an ISO from digital world sort of rob it of all the things that made it special in the first place? You can't be a revolutionary digital entity if you're no longer digital.
- Why did Flynn need to merge with Clu to beat him? Clu just rose out of the ground when he was made, he didn't split off from Flynn. Would've made more sense if Flynn reached into Clu's chest and erased him or something. Sure, the explosion has more impact, but it also makes no goddamn sense.
Heck, I could even go for Flynn absorbing Clu in a selfless, self-destructive sacrifice (since I thought the fact that Flynn embraces Clu in order to do it was quite poignant)...but why an explosion? Shouldn't Flynn have just winced in pain and dissolved or something? Seems like they just wanted to punctuate the ending with something flashy...apparently all the other flashy stunts weren't enough, I guess.
This is all the [censored] I noticed in the cinema. My god, was it distracting. Some minor stuff: - If the ISOs are so remarkable and precious, then why does Flynn allow Quorra - the last of her revolutionary kind - to run around without any form of bodyguard? She's clearly not invulnerable, so why let her out of sight? Why risk letting the ISOs go extinct?
- How is Sam Flynn the chief shareholder of ENCOM? No, really. From what we see of him he doesn't seem too well off: he lives in a shack made of shipping containers, flunked out of university and there's no mention of a job. Where did he get the money to acquire the majority of stocks for a corporation as powerful as ENCOM?
STUFF I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN: Remember the pig? Yeah. I assumed Flynn "coded" it into existence with his refined User skills. I think it should've been a scene we actually saw: Flynn offers Sam something to eat, then demonstrates what he's been able to achieve with practice. He makes a meal out of digital dust, essentially. Of course, he'd then say something like: "Well, it doesn't taste exactly like swine. Still working on that. Really, you only need this glowing water to get by, but I find it's nice to sit down at a table and eat, y'know?" Missed opportunity. The first inkling we get to Flynn's powers is at the End of Line club, but really all he does there is make the lights short out and throw the Black Guard off-kilter. One thing I wanted to see: y'know those mantlepiece ornaments that looked like Bit? Yeah, I wanted Flynn to touch one, thereby bringing it to life and have it buzz around the room. Another small-scale demonstration of what he can do. This would also provide a visual comparison between Clu and Flynn; later on, Clu touches the same ornament...and nothing happens. Visual evidence that, though outwardly the same, the two are different on a more fundamental level. I also would've liked to have seen a scene involving Flynn and Sam (or Quorra and Sam) sparring a bit. Trading tips about how to fight in the reality of The Grid. That would explain why, in the second act, Sam can suddenly handle himself and take on four Black Guards at once. Maybe Sam is rebounding his disc off the wall - kinda like a game of squash - all on his lonesome and the noise attracts the other character... The revelation of Tron should've been more dramatic, rather than a random mumble from Flynn. Kind of deprived the moment of any impact. Then again, the movie does little to explain who the hell Tron actually is; the only titbit the audience gets is that Flynn "brought him over from the old Grid". That's it. Something else about the ISOs: I think it would've helped the film if there was some physical, visual evidence of detrimental effects they have on The Grid. Say, Quorra's out and about - trying to keep a low profile - when suddenly a chunk of the pavement begins to rupture. Fracture lines run down the street, causing upheaval. It's not a Grid-wide disaster, but still...pretty dangerous. And it happens randomly and without warning. The excuse is something about their unpredictable nature messing with the code - the very reality - of The Grid. This is why Clu could see ISOs as an actual threat to the harmony and safety of The Grid, whereas Flynn would want to protect them regardless. It'd provide some moral ambiguity and give more credit to Clu's view of the matter. Even ignoring all of the structural shortcomings, this film really missed a golden opportunity to have some relevant metapors and commentary about how technology has changed - and now dominates - our lives and changed how we see the world. The film doesn't even embrace its technology theme on a basic level: Sam basically just gets shunted into "a world". References to data, software and technology are actually glaringly absent. To me that seems a bit self-defeating. This film was so much wasted potential it hurts.
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Post by Warped‽‽‽ on Jan 5, 2011 19:49:30 GMT
Pretty much agree with the above. The whole ISO thing just seemed a completely bizarre plot to add in without explaining their relevance or their use properly. (Exclaiming "They could change EVERYTHING!" is not explanation)
Although in reply to the point about why they don't bother hiding from patrols, it's mentioned briefly as Quorra drives them out into the mountains that their vehicles can't function off of the grid? So perhaps that's why they figured they were safe.
Then again, Clu then turns up at Flynn's place later doesn't he? Hrmmm.
I was about to make a witty remark about how this plot was loosely strung together at best, which just about puts it at a normal Hollywood standard (ohhohoh, so witty) but retrospectively have decided that it doesn't even achieve that. (oh, taste the bile.)
Eh, didn't hate it. Probably wouldn't be interested too much in seeing it again though.
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Post by Baron Canier on Jan 7, 2011 14:02:18 GMT
Although in reply to the point about why they don't bother hiding from patrols, it's mentioned briefly as Quorra drives them out into the mountains that their vehicles can't function off of the grid? So perhaps that's why they figured they were safe. Quorra remarks that the enemy lightcycles don't work outside the arena, which is why her..."lightbuggy" gets a sort of "snow tire" when they go off-road. This implies the Clu and co. can't follow them. Except they're shown to possess flying vehicles, which makes the problem of rough terrain a moot point entirely. Also: Clu isn't sending out patrols in the film itself. That was something I said he should've been doing, what with him being unquestioned ruler of the entire Grid and all that. Then again, Clu then turns up at Flynn's place later doesn't he? Hrmmm. Yes.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 7, 2011 15:53:44 GMT
Gotta agree with Cain on this one, especially with the bajillion plot-holes he's picked out.
This film is just an incomprehensible mess, complete garbage, but you just know the fanboys are lapping it up. Actually, that's what the film feels like; a fan-film, and a particularly bad one at that.
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Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
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Post by Pitt on Jan 9, 2011 14:17:09 GMT
I thought Jeff Bridges was entertaining.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jan 10, 2011 0:58:57 GMT
Jeff Bridges is always entertaining.
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Post by Moo on Jan 10, 2011 1:04:57 GMT
I havent seen this, but I cant help feel by the HEUG post of Cains that it'd have been better as a game or something.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jan 10, 2011 2:53:16 GMT
SPOILERS AHOYClu's intent was obviously to lure someone to The Grid. For what purpose? To lure out Flynn? Clu didn't even know who was going to arrive! He sent the page to Alan and got Sam instead. What if some random person, with no connection to Flynn whatsoever, had warped in? A user is a user. Something Flynn hadn't had contact with for 1200 'Grid years'. I think that the 'attempt' to kill Sam was just a ruse to draw Flynn, or in this case Quorra out of hiding so that they could then be tracked back to where they were living. Which is what happened. Well, Sam got picked up pretty quickly, so Clu probably had lots of patrols around the entrance, and figured that it was only a matter of time til it came to his attention. Clu's an identical copy of Flynn, but he doesn't have any of Flynn's wisdom, or a soul. He thinks like a machine. The whole message of the film is about the impossibility of perfection, which Clu was told to strive towards - a safe, free world, where anyone can do whatever they want. Which can't happen - letting people do whatever they want is dangerous. Best solution for Clu, is to land on the side of reprogramming any programs that pose a threat to his idea of perfection, so that they will technically be doing 'what (they've been programmed to think) they want'. Then the ISOs turn up. With free will and an ability to learn, which Clu does not. They can't be reprogrammed, so they must be destroyed. I assumed it's because they're technically 'alive', and therefore have more in common with humans. The programs are just things that Flynn created. I, personally thought that maybe Flynn believed that he might be able to fix terminally ill people in the same way he fixed Quorra, if he could discover the similarities/differences between us and them. Flynn's second command to Clu when he created him - all information is to be free. You see that mirrored with his son's hacking attempt at the start of the film. Both of them believed that information should be free for all. Then Clu came for Flynn's chip. The chip contained everything that Flynn had ever done, and with it, Clu could have caused a great deal of harm. But Clu believes that he has the right to it because of how he was programmed. On the 'why is it so important' thing, well, I assume, since Sam had it, and Quorra came out in the real world too, that if Clu's ship had flown into the light, it and everything/everyone on it would have materialised in the real world too. Kevin Flynn was chief shareholder before his disappearance, then the shares all went to his next of kin when he went missing, maybe. And Sam's unwillingness to cash them showed he wasn't comfortable getting rid of his ties to the company his dad helped make successful. So he lives in relative squalor. Just my thoughts on some of those holes. I've got to disagree with you on the lack of a meaningful metaphor. As I touched on before, I think the main messages were the imperfection thing, and about the dilema over whether or not information should be free for all or not. Both Flynns start out with the ideal that it should, but both gradually learn that nothing is as black and white as it seems. It's like in real life - the ones who are the first to jump to the defence of things like wikileaks, illegal downloading, etc, are also usually the first ones to be morally outraged when it turns out that facebook takes the information you type in and sells it to others. Yes, I had to mull it over and dig quite deep to see this message in the film, but at the end of the day, it is a Disney film, and they had to market the film to kids as well as adults by keeping the story fairly simple. And if it gets too overtly preachy and philosophical, you start to descend into Phantom Menace territory.
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Post by Baron Canier on Jan 10, 2011 13:36:30 GMT
Clu's an identical copy of Flynn, but he doesn't have any of Flynn's wisdom, or a soul. He thinks like a machine. The whole message of the film is about the impossibility of perfection, which Clu was told to strive towards - a safe, free world, where anyone can do whatever they want. Which can't happen - letting people do whatever they want is dangerous. Best solution for Clu, is to land on the side of reprogramming any programs that pose a threat to his idea of perfection, so that they will technically be doing 'what (they've been programmed to think) they want'. Then the ISOs turn up. With free will and an ability to learn, which Clu does not. They can't be reprogrammed, so they must be destroyed. I wasn't talking about the ISOs - they weren't part of the system proper - I'm talking about the dozens of innocent Programs he slaughters in ridiculous games. Those guys are part of the system and have tasks to perform; Clu kills them. Clu cannot make new Programs. That's detrimental to the system. That's a big assumption. And even if that was the case then Clu's an idiot; why let the lynchpin to your entire plan out of sight? Why not focus your attention solely on portal activity? But no, he doesn't seem to have noticed anyone has entered The Grid - and how often can that happen? I mean, really - and is content to slouch around until someone else points it out to him. Given his actions in the film I doubt Flynn would jeopardise his own safety to go and rescue someone; he didn't even want to make a break for freedom with Sam on his side. He was content to hide. I don't think he'd risk himself for a random plebian just so he can have conversation. Pretty good ruse, then. What with him throwing Sam up against Rinzler and then taking swipes at Sam's head with an instant-kill disc himself. Clu didn't even know if Flynn was "watching". Hell, Flynn wasn't watching. If Sam had died he wouldn't have known. The only reason the plan (and I hestitate to call it "a plan", especially since after Sam gets away Clu just sits there waiting for Flynn to do something) worked is because Quorra happened to be nearby. My approach? Restrain Sam, strap him to some building and loudly announce over a megaphone that I've got Flynn's son. Then have my guards/ships kill anything that makes a move towards Sam. Not exactly subtle, but good lord it'd get the job done. Yet the regular Programs are shown to possess a full range of emotions and desires, some of which don't make sense - they get horny, they like to dance. They fear death and attend violent bloodsports. For all intents and purposes these guys are "technically alive", too. The only thing unique about the ISOs is their origin. We never get a visual demonstration of their unique nature. It doesn't even have to be the glitch thing I mentioned above, just something that showed an ISO was more capable/adept than your average Joe.EXE Heck, if anything the ISOs are shown to be more fragile; Quorra loses a forearm and faints. Understandable. Except we see other Programs being relatively okay with lost limbs when injured. One guy is even dandy while missing a piece of his head and Quorra passes out from an arm? What a wuss. I'd also think that most religious-going folks would object to being "not really alive" simply because a creator-god had a hand in their genesis. Maybe. It's not exactly made abundantly clear. I was actually thrown by the whole "visual schematic of triple helix DNA" bit. How can actual DNA exist within a Program? Sure, you can say "DNA is code", but that's always a metaphor, not a literal description. I did like the visual gag of "de-bugging" Quorra, though. Very sweet. How? It's just a live-feed data log of Flynn's time in The Grid. What can it offer Clu in terms of power or ability? Yet they didn't strictly need Flynn's disc in order to leave. Clu - a verteran Program - saw Sam and Quorra leaving and didn't care, he went for Flynn and got...Quorra's disc. [censored], they pulled the old swicth-a-roo! However, the fact that Clu saw them leaving and didn't try to stop them means that Flynn's disc wasn't needed to leave; if having the disc of a User is the only way to leave The Grid then he would've deduced it immediatly (because they were both leaving) and not fallen for the switch ploy. Clu could've just left when Sam arrived in The Grid. The only reason he didn't is because we wouldn't have a movie. I'm pretty sure shares do not work that way. Pretty sure. Well, I sort of view the film like this: It's about fathers and sons. Not the Biblical variety, just regular ones. One dad, two sons. One is listless, unfocused and utterly strange to his father...yet his father loves him. While the other is focused on his goals, dedicated and like his father in every way...yet fundamentally different from his father and they cannot co-exist. I saw it as trying to tackle a paradoxical relationship. Nothing especially deep, but good enough. Then I get on the internet and find people trying to ram a square brick into a round hole with all this alleged religious imagery. I did actually settle onto a technology-based message this film might've been preaching...but I'm unsure if it was intentional or just me seeing something that's not there. I think it descended into Phantom Menace territory when it failed to keep its plot from falling apart under the lightest of scrutiny. AND ANOTHER THING:Oh yeah, some stuff I forgot to mention in my first tl;dr. - Dust. Yes, dust. How is the system The Grid is running on still active and A-OK after two decades of no dusting? Most computers start to chug after a couple of months, nevermind over a decade. I don't care if you are Kevin Flynn; your system isn't gonna work if you don't dust once in a while.
- That part where Gem greets Sam in the street. That kind of puzzled me; when Sam arrived in The Grid, Gem and three others climbed out of the walls to fit him with proper Tron gear. Okay, fine. It's alien and weird. And when they’re done they return to their wall pod things. Again, fine.
But…here she is out in the street. Why? She was residing in the wall before Sam came along. Was there just a really awkward moment after Sam left where the four of them clambered out again? If she was just going to go out into The Grid then why bother getting back into the wall pod at all?
The only explanation I can think of – from a writing standpoint – is that the cast of Legacy is so thread-bare that they needed someone – anyone – to serve as a familiar face for the audience. Even a complete non-character like Gem.
I could [censored] about characterisation and what have you, but meh. I am glad I got some responses, though. I always enjoy a bit of film debate.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jan 10, 2011 14:59:35 GMT
I wasn't talking about the ISOs - they weren't part of the system proper - I'm talking about the dozens of innocent Programs he slaughters in ridiculous games. Those guys are part of the system and have tasks to perform; Clu kills them. Clu cannot make new Programs. That's detrimental to the system. Well, the Grid wasn't actually finished, and didn't seem to serve any purpose other than to exist, so that Flynn could create his perfect world. And since Flynn went out of his way to point out the fact that Clu couldn't 'destroy' programs, I assumed that the games were just a form of entertainment, and that any program that lost would be reprogrammed thereafter. Well, Clu did have a Grid to run, and an army to build. Who's to say that the recognizer's job wasn't to watch the portal. He probably had other schemes in the works to find Flynn anyway, that fell to the wayside once he discovered Sam. Well, I think he would've - he's the hero, and one in desperate need of allies. Looked like Rinzler had been instructed to stop attacking once he discovered someone was a user, and if there hadn't been any threat of death, then the lightcycle scene would have been pretty boring. I think, as painful as it would have been for Flynn, he'd have had to leave Sam alone in your scenario, because he couldn't risk Clu getting his chip. How would you manage if you lost your arm? That's what I mean about the ISOs being more human - only, they could also be fixed relatively easily. If you could extrapolate that to humanity, you could eliminate illness, disease, etc. Well, he did. But only when he realised that they did actually have Flynn's chip. That was why Flynn had to re-merge with him otherwise he would have made it back to the real world with them. Which kind of implies that the chip was needed to exit the Grid. I thought that was pretty obvious tbh. :/ I know for a fact that they do. My great uncle had a significant amount of money invested in shares, and when he died, he hadn't made a will. So they automatically went to his only remaining relative - my grandad. I assumed that putting clothes on combatants was effectively her job, and once the Arena games had ended, she left. Either way, I wasn't disappointed to see her getting more screen time. Agree with you on the father and sons message though. And yeah, I think that on the religious symbolism - some elements of it were implied, but it's a very loose fit at best, and were probably added for effect, rather than to be taken as a serious message.
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Post by Baron Canier on Jan 10, 2011 15:36:14 GMT
Well, the Grid wasn't actually finished, and didn't seem to serve any purpose other than to exist, so that Flynn could create his perfect world. And since Flynn went out of his way to point out the fact that Clu couldn't 'destroy' programs, I assumed that the games were just a form of entertainment, and that any program that lost would be reprogrammed thereafter. You're assuming a lot here. You don't know that they didn't have a purpose; the entire reason an anthropomorphic Program-character exists is because they've been given a task and are part of a system. You can't reprogram a Program once they're dead and no longer exist. You'd have to make another one. Which Clu can't do. Well, Clu did have a Grid to run Which is why he spends his time lounging around the game arena. Because there's no evidence to support that? There's already Programs aboard the Regoniser that picks Sam up, implying they've been wandering around nabbing people. They even remark "another stray" when they grab Sam; they don't know he's a User. They don't report it to a command structure or Clu. Again, an assumption. There's no mention or evidence of Clu doing anything constructive in the meantime, aside from rectifying people. And even then he doesn't seem to have done a thorough job. Flynn's pretty much content to hide. It takes his only son running off into danger to convince him to come out of hiding, and even then he has to think about it. A random person Flynn doesn't know probably wouldn't have made him risk everything. Come to think of it...how did Flynn and Quorra get back to the city so fast in time to save Sam? Sam took their only - shown - means of rapid transportation. Based on what happens later on, Rinzler stopped himself seemingly out of some lingering remant of his Tron personality, not because he had any prior set of instructions. Clu stands up in surprise when Rinzler declares Sam is a User. True, but that's not the point I was making. It would've been more obvious if, say, Clu moved to kill Sam and then stopped, leaving Sam confused. Or passed up the perfect chance to just cut his head off. Instead he doggedly tries to kill the guy over and over, with no hint whatsoever that he has a bigger plan at work. If he had killed Sam his entire plan - if he even had a plan - would've fallen apart. There's always the angle that he was "putting on a reeeally convincing show", but there's nothing to really suggest that; Clu was trying to kill Sam. And what did luring Quorra out really accomplish? Sam got away and there was no sign of Flynn. What was going to stop all three of them from just carrying on with the whole "hide forever" plan? I'm not a digital entity. She is. Instances in the film suggest that as long as she has some part of herself intact (the torso actually seems to be the main weak point of these guys, funnily enough), she should still be able to continue to function. That's why I highlighted the example of Programs getting by with bits missing: they can. Seemingly without fuss. She faints from the loss of an arm. Fixing disease the same way he fixed Quorra is another blind assumption, what with humans being more complex than lines of code. Furthermore, if humans could be fixed that way in The Grid then why would you need ISOs at all? Just zap people into The Grid and fiddle with them. Clu confronted Flynn when he thought Quorra and Sam - two people - were leaving The Grid. If you need the disc of a User to leave (Sam is User, using his own disc. Quorra using Flynn's disc), then Clu should've immediatly deduced that something was up and ignored Flynn altogether. He did not try to stop them immediatly. He only lunged at them after he fell for the switch ploy. Which means that the User disc isn't a strict requirement for exiting The Grid, otherwise the switch trick wouldn't have worked at all, because Clu saw nothing suspicous about two people leaving The Grid when only one of them (as far as he knew) had a User disc. Righto. You're kind of missing my point. Her appearance later makes no sense: she was already in the wall before Sam arrived, and afterwards she returned to the wall. Why? If she had a life outside of stripping people and redressing them, why bother with the wall pod at all?
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jan 24, 2011 0:54:41 GMT
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