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Post by Charles on Dec 28, 2004 11:50:10 GMT
We all love us some STC but we have to admit... every so often, due to its serial nature, a great massive plot hole would open up. The biggest being the Chaotix being wanted for a bank robbery, which they didn't commit and which was resolved off-panel. What happened there?
Well, remember Nack used to be a Chaotix and he's also a money-hungry, mercenary sort. He was probably the one who stole the money and the whole Chaotix got the blame (though they didn't know he'd dun it). And eventually the Chaotix managed to prove it was Nack on his own, mainly due to lack of evidence fingering the others.
Any other big gaping plot holes that could be resolved?
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
High Priest of the Religion of Football
STC-O's resident footy obsessive
Posts: 2,815
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 28, 2004 12:44:05 GMT
Dunno, I gotta admit thouhg, I have often wondered about that whole Chaotix thing, because I always wondered if I had missed an episode somewhere that cleared it all up. Very confusing
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Post by Ben2k9 on Dec 28, 2004 13:56:18 GMT
the biggest plot hole in the history of the comic: Amys past. That story really is completly wrong.
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Dec 28, 2004 14:11:31 GMT
I liked that story. It wasn't as bad a fit as many of you make it out to be.
I call retcon. "Man Without Fear" for Amy.
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Post by Retro on Dec 28, 2004 17:35:59 GMT
I liked that story. It wasn't as bad a fit as many of you make it out to be. Agreed Tom, I liked it too. Especially the line "I've always been able to fight, just YOU never took notice!" Summed up quite a bit about arrogance vs ability. Here is an example. I can jump the Grand Canyon easily and no possiblity of falling! And just to prove it Ill wear 3 tons on my shoes! *leaps.....falls.....hits the ground.....weights fall on him.*
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 18:11:54 GMT
The amys secret past storyline is a great one, in what way is it a plothole? it could easilly have happened during the time that sonic never existed e.g. when he was transported 6 months into the future. and during the girl trouble (amys introduction) it works because Amy cannot fight, shes over come by the troopers and there is no way that shes going to take on a mettalix by herself.
But another really big plothole that bugged me was these two.
the kid cruel caper, whatever happened to that don king ape like dude?
also in hero of the year, whatever happened to the guy who tries to take out sonic?
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Post by archangelffx on Dec 28, 2004 18:38:11 GMT
He goes and lives an honest life? I don't imagine that Sonic would be too bothered about one of Robotnik's cronies that doesnt pose a threat.
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 18:42:40 GMT
But surely he would still continue to try and get sonic, the hero of the year one especially even finishes the strip by saying something like "you havnt seen the last of me!" well sorry but it looks like we have.
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JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
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Post by JJ on Dec 28, 2004 19:02:26 GMT
Ugh, can't believe ppl are defending 'Amy's Secret Past'. It's a plot-hole because Amy is acting like a tomboy, when we know that didn't happen until later when she became more independant. Also, the very idea that she turned pink (as opposed to being born that way) is stupid, stupid, stupid. It makes me wonder why we never saw the secret Tails story which shows him falling into a bucket of Tango and thus being doomed to orangeness forever!!
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 19:23:12 GMT
Ugh, can't believe ppl are defending 'Amy's Secret Past'. believe it. So in girl trouble your denying her defiance to the trooper when they take her away? As apposed to a hedgehog being caught in an explosion and turning blue? That isnt stupid? Because foxes are generally characterised as being yellow/brown like colour.
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Post by Ben2k9 on Dec 28, 2004 19:37:55 GMT
believe it. So in girl trouble your denying her defiance to the trooper when they take her away? As apposed to a hedgehog being caught in an explosion and turning blue? That isnt stupid? Because foxes are generally characterised as being yellow/brown like colour. actually, her personality was almost 180 degrees away in her early days from the personality of the Amy's story. She took on the personality of Sonic CD amy and generally, could not fight. She got captured very easily, her personality only changed when StC dedided to giver her the more familiar tomboy look, and she took on the role of one of the freedom fighters, but before that she was extremely different. For example, early Amy adored and loved Sonic but nowadays she sees him as self centred and egotistical. Then theres the thing with the clothes, she didnt have the tomboy clothes in the early days or her crossbow so the story is completly wrong. And dont even get me started on the whole pink thing. Regarding Sonic, you are wrong, he turned blue because he broke the sound barrier. Amy cannot even run half as fast as Sonic so its improbable that she change colour.
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 19:44:48 GMT
actually, her personality was almost 180 degrees away in her early days from the personality of the Amy's story. She took on the personality of Sonic CD amy and generally, could not fight. She got captured very easily, her personality only changed when StC dedided to giver her the more familiar tomboy look, and she took on the role of one of the freedom fighters, but before that she was extremely different. she didnt fight because she never had a chance to. in girl trouble she is grabbed in the middle of the night and its likely shes sleeping. and with the mettalix even sonic had trouble fighting it so what chance did amy have? in Amys secret past sonic isnt mentioned in front of her so why even bother to display that part of her personality when its not going to move along the compact short strip? No your wrong. Sonic broke the sound barrier however that is not why he turned blue. as it says in the sonic origin he gets close to the sound barrier and kintobor shouts something like "Stop sonic the machine cant take it!" and then it explodes. this explosion is the thing that causes him to transform as well as him breaking the sound barrier, in amys past the machine is generating the same conditions for robotnik to become super powered but it gets damaged and theres the same explosion and she gets a change of colour. It is very strange though that people say that its stupid that she changed colour when sonic did exactly the same thing in almost an identicle way.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 28, 2004 19:47:00 GMT
uh...Sonic turning blue coz he broke the sound barrier isnt that great either! Since when did a Concorde leave the UK white and land in the US blue?! lol! Im guessing if we were taking this ridiculously seriously the explosion would have turned him a slightly singed red/black colour! (We'd get Shadow! wahey!!)
Ive never seen the Amys Secret Past and have often wondered how she became pink while most hedgehogs are brown, but I do agree that changing her personality so that it doesnt fit with earlier issues is a bit daft. Id always seen Amy as being the damsel in distress that proved the others wrong by learning to be a Freedom Fighter, starting with her plan to collaborate with Captn Plunder. Sure she mustve had some skill with a crossbow coz as soon as we see her with one in STC shes an expert at using it, theres nothing to say that she was given it to learn when she joined the gang but the clothes and the 'tude. er,...no. As for being pink...er, well she could have done it deliberately, ie she went to a hairdresser!!
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JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
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Post by JJ on Dec 28, 2004 19:59:59 GMT
Um, the fact that it happened to Sonic is completely irrelevant. We're talking about Amy Rose here, who has no special abilities or super-speed whatsoever, and we're led to believe in 'Girl Trouble' that she led a pretty normal life until troopers dragged her off. Lew's story almost completely negates everything we're led to believe about Amy from the beginning of STC, in terms of character and origin.
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 20:11:38 GMT
No it isnt, the fact it happened to sonic who until that day was a normal hedgehog the power sneakers that kintobor gave him aided in his speed becomming super fast, also the fact it happens to sonic shows to the readers that it can happen and could happen to someone else which offers interesting stoyline ideas.
What about her ability to use a cross bow? and also like it shows in the story and as I just explained the explosion is part of the reason for sonics transformation not just because he broke the sound barrier, as robotnik says in amys past "ive recreated the same energy that turned sonic into what he is today" so we know that one half of the equation is there, when amy damages the device it triggers an explosion and she is caught in it, the equation is complete only the target has changed, the fact she doesnt have super speed is irrelivant because until sonic got his speed shoes from kintobor he was said to be not that fast either.
Im sorry but your totally wrong, there is nothing to suggest at all that Amy led a perfectly normal life at all in issue 21's strip. the troopers come during the night and take her away, there is no captions or any other evidence to say that she hasnt ever done anything, the only thing that seems strange is that she doesnt have her cross bow, however if it was a suprise attack which from the opening image is what it looks like she wouldnt have had time to get it.
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JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
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Post by JJ on Dec 28, 2004 20:14:36 GMT
Don't you find it odd that her personality is completely, totally different, though?
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 28, 2004 20:29:28 GMT
Um, the fact that it happened to Sonic is completely irrelevant. We're talking about Amy Rose here, who has no special abilities or super-speed whatsoever, and we're led to believe in 'Girl Trouble' that she led a pretty normal life until troopers dragged her off. Lew's story almost completely negates everything we're led to believe about Amy from the beginning of STC, in terms of character and origin. I was replying to someone talking about Sonic turning blue....and yeh Amy does have an ability! She has great skill with a crossbow and became the leader of the Freedom Fighters in Sonics absence. Maybe she did have a normal life, we dont know but she certainly was not without skills of her own! Ive never seen the issue like I said before, but the idea of her becoming charged with the same energy that turned Sonic blue seems impossible as it was contained within the explosion and somehow Robotnik would have to have sampled that energy to know what it was....it sounds like Im talkin bullshhh but I know what Im on about! There are different forms of energy and that which spawned blue Sonic seems to have been unique..Robotnik nearly stole Sonics "power" with the invention of Neinstein in an earlier issue of STC but he failed. I do like the idea of Amy having a fraction of the "power" Sonic has but it doesnt seem to hold water. What annoys me is this talk of her attitude being changed. Amys tomboyish...er..ness...slowly came to be as she spent time Freedom Fighting. Thats how I saw it.
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 20:35:02 GMT
Don't you find it odd that her personality is completely, totally different, though? no and for this reason. What happened in issue 8? (I think thats the one). sonic got transported 6 months into the future. the next issue cuts to the end of those 6 months, we have no idea what happened in between, it is likely that the time for amys past is set in those 6 months, as the animal says in the back to reality issue they all thought sonic was dead. so if amys past takes place during these 6 months then Amy will also be thinking that sonic is dead and will be thinking of her own survival as well as those of her friends. since the strip begins in the emerald hill zone why doesnt sonic just come forward? she wont be acting all lovely for sonic because she believes he is gone and will be fighting since there is no one else to. However after this sonic is back and like all young girls amy is completely feeling admiration and desire for sonic as with classic love narrative sonic is all she can think of and the greatest weakness a person has is their heart, look at other comics like spiderman, the main weakness of any hero or character is their heart. in the girl trouble saga and carrying on into mettalix and even the plunder section she does show signs of her more recent personality however because sonic has just returned and she does fancy the pants off him she behaves within this manner. during amys past however it is likely that sonic is trapped in time so she has no reason to feel the way she does about him from the girl trouble issue.
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Post by Ben2k9 on Dec 28, 2004 20:45:53 GMT
whos to say Amys past happens in that time period? theres no proof of it.
Your forgeting one thing here, it mentions that Amy was claiming Sonic as her boyfriend recently. ie, at the start of issue 21, meaning she only knew him in recent times, therefore, she didnt know him in issue 8. Dont forget, Sonic wasnt as big back then and most of Mobius wasnt under Robotniks control, So he wouldnt have been known that well. Of course with Robotnik taking over within the time period of 6 months and Sonic no where in sight how could Amy know him?
Also, Dont forget the 6 months was NOT the space between issue 8 and 21! There where (obviously) new sonic stories between them issues.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 28, 2004 20:50:04 GMT
Yes, when Sonic returned 6 months later, he rescued people and battled Robotnik in the issues leading up to #21, in which he had become infamous enough for the Troopers to start targeting people which may be linked to Sonic. By then, he mustve become known to many including Amy. Id always though she knew him before then anyway but in Sonic CD shes just his "#1 fan" isnt she?!
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Post by JC on Dec 28, 2004 20:51:04 GMT
whos to say Amys past happens in that time period? theres no proof of it. No but since sonic lived in the emerald hill zone before that time surely it would have been him to do the mission. its likely she didnt know him but its likely she knew of him. I find that hard to believe since every single person that comes into contact with sonic in all the issues from 1-8 knows who he is, what makes amy any different? who said that the 6 months was the space between issue 8 and 21?
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Post by Ben2k9 on Dec 28, 2004 21:00:04 GMT
the fact ofthe matter is, it is very hard to connect the links between the old amy and new without using theorys, simply put the story was complete filler, and theres so many inconsistances its hard to believe. Thats my opinion.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 28, 2004 21:03:10 GMT
Character development and then forgetting that development when a "past" story was written is the impression Ive been given. Still, Id have to see it. I still think that Amy could have turned herself pink with the use of scissors and a tub of Dulux...
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Post by Admin Droid on Dec 28, 2004 21:22:48 GMT
But surely he would still continue to try and get sonic, the hero of the year one especially even finishes the strip by saying something like "you havnt seen the last of me!" well sorry but it looks like we have. Just because Sonic hasn't seen the last of him doesn't mean that the readers haven't. Amy was always tough and confident, she just liked getting a rise out of Sonic by playing his girlfriend. She was scrapping away with the Freedom Fighters in #24 and #25, not to mention giving the Troopers what-for in #21. She was always written as a strong, independent personality, just in a different way. But we've never known for sure whether or not to what extent the whole thing was just a big wind-up anyway. I don't think the story is at all unbelievable. Unnecessary, even downright silly, perhaps, but perfectly fine in terms of Amy's character. Now, perhaps if you were to look at the difference between Lew- and Nigel-universe Amy overall, you might have a case. (Which is why for STC Online we keep the two separate).
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 28, 2004 21:26:04 GMT
so which "version" did u use in STC-O? She does wind Sonic up in the Death egg but is this Nigel or Lew stylee Amy?
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