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Post by Alex on Dec 1, 2010 14:36:14 GMT
South Park is one of the few attempts of American satire I find to be both funny and managing to hit the nail squarely on the head more often than not. The original series, devoid of any attempts at an actual 'message' suffered for it, though some of the later series suffered for placing so much emphasis on it that it would be to the detriment of the episode.
Personally, South Park is one of my favourite things on television - ever. So much about it just clicks with me: the setting, the characters, the humour, the satire and wit. I'd be the first to admit there are a number of dud episodes that leave me rather cold, but there are a far greater number of extremely enjoyable episodes that I could happily watch again and again.
Honestly, I think that people that rag on South Park are often similar to the people that rag on GTA - they just miss the entire point of it. It's not about the base level, demeaning activities or personalities that are depicted (the foul-mouthed children in South Park, the crime aspect of GTA), it's about the way it uses that to take the piss in often a very sharp and honestly humorous way. It's something a lot of American comedy is actually really rubbish at, relying on blunt humour that comes with a detailed explanation of what that satire is about and bouncing from one 'gag' to the next like the writers all have ADHD.
I honestly doubt that without South Park, there'd be a similar show on American TV to take its place at taking a very sharp knife and poking it at every big bear of an issue that comes along and that would genuinely be a bad thing.
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Post by madhair60 on Dec 1, 2010 15:11:01 GMT
As if South Park is subtle.
Contrived controversy (this year's "Jersey" episode), outright lies to the audience ("200" and "201"), disturbingly apathetic morals (every episode where the moral is "HAHA PEOPLE ARE OFFENDED BY STUFF"), baffling visual aesthetics (used to be an interesting style, now the visuals have been upgraded into a weird homogenised mess), every character having the same voice, theft of material ("Insheeption"), an obvious dislike towards poor people (most episodes), increasingly strung-out multi-parters without enough plot for even one episode (the Coon episodes this season), lolwellrandom set pieces to appeal to their fratboy fans (to add to the viewing incentive of their lazier racist, homophobic or sexist gags).
First eight or so years were good, though.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 1, 2010 15:25:59 GMT
First eight or so years were good, though. My thoughts exactly, hence why it's so high up, because it was so good for so long, and now it's so bad! I personally think South Park started losing credibility once Cartman started wielding a gun on a regular basis, I dunno why, just something about that didn't (and still doesn't) sit right with me.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 2, 2010 8:00:36 GMT
2. Only Fools and Horses (1981-2003) They almost managed to end this one perfectly. If you could just erase from your memory the 3 Christmas specials from 2001-2003 and forget they never existed then it would not belong in this list by any means. The final part of the 1996 trilogy was the perfect conclusion, after 15 years of Del Boy saying “this time next year we’ll be millionaires”, they finished it in the way every fan wanted them to, but they just couldn’t leave it at that. Not only were the 2001-2003 specials criminally unfunny compared to the episodes of old, they were also insulting in their implausibility, especially the scene with Uncle Albert’s funeral, which in itself was an insult to Buster Merryfield’s memory. The BBC should never have allowed it to happen.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 2, 2010 20:11:14 GMT
Good grief...
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Post by Robert Frazer on Dec 3, 2010 3:24:43 GMT
In fairness to South Park, it does have a powerful strength in being able to wrong-foot expectations. One episode that sticks out in my memory is where there's a national franchaise chain trying to buy out the local coffee-house. As well as it featuring the Underpants Gnomes (whose infamous plan of "x, y, , PROFIT!" has become positively memetastic over the years), you'd naturally expect this episode to deal with the gang trying to thwart the big franchise - after all, no-one like the nasty, evil corporation now, do they? However, the episode came out in support of corporate coffee - and not just to be controversial, either, actually supplying an argument as well.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 3, 2010 8:21:06 GMT
In fairness to South Park, it does have a powerful strength in being able to wrong-foot expectations. One episode that sticks out in my memory is where there's a national franchaise chain trying to buy out the local coffee-house. As well as it featuring the Underpants Gnomes (whose infamous plan of "x, y, , PROFIT!" has become positively memetastic over the years), you'd naturally expect this episode to deal with the gang trying to thwart the big franchise - after all, no-one like the nasty, evil corporation now, do they? However, the episode came out in support of corporate coffee - and not just to be controversial, either, actually supplying an argument as well. To be fair, that was way back in series 2, long before it became stagnant. Here are the shows that almost made the list: The Royle Family:The first 3 series were pretty good (though the third less so), but then they reverted to doing just Christmas specials, starting with The Queen of Sheba, which went against everything that established the tone of the original show, by having incidental music, fade-outs between passages of time and moving the show away from the Royle's house, none of this fit in with the show's mood. I'll admit I haven't seen the following 2 Christmas specials (there is apparently going to be a third one this Christmas) but the overal premise of these doesn't sound good to me. CouplingAnother show, much like My Family, which suffered badly once the funniest characters (Jeff) left the show. It's probably no coincidence that it only ran for one further series, sans-Jeff. FrasierActually one of my all-time favourite American sitcoms, but like all too many, left to run for way too long until it became tired. Everybody Loves RaymondFar from the greatest of sitcoms ever, it was at least fairly enjoyable for the most part, but just like Frasier, it went on too long and became tedious towards the end. They Think It's All OverAt its best when Lee Hurst was still a main panelist, I was never keen on Jonathan Ross replacing him, though it did manage to still work as a show even after that, but eventually they'd replaced virtually all the old regulars, including Nick Hancock as host (replaced by Lee Mack) so in the end, Rory McGrath was the only panelist left from the original line-up. Imagine, if you will, Have I Got News For You if Paul Merton and Ian Hislop both left the show. Speaking of which... Have I Got News For YouI've mentioned it before, but for me, it's never been the same since Angus Deayton left the show, horses for courses as they say, but personally I've never been a fan of the guest presenter format. The reason HIGNFY worked so well in the first place was the chemistry between the regular panelists and the host, and that just doesn't work as well without a permanent host, plus some of the guest hosts have been truly awful (I can't remember any specific examples off the top of my head as I haven't watched it in a while). I was gonna mention Vicar of Dibley in this list too, but that wouldn't work because it was never that funny in the first place! I'm hoping the new series of Peep Show (which started last week) picks up the pace pretty well or that could end up on this list too.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Dec 3, 2010 13:08:24 GMT
I kind of agree with you on HIGNFY - there was a kind of chemistry when Angus Deayton was still on board, but at the same time, I actually really like the guest host element of the show now. If Deayton was still on board, there would have been no Bruce Forsyth episode. And that would have been a travesty.
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Dec 3, 2010 14:14:56 GMT
Or the one where Gordon Ramsay pretty much gets eviscerated.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 4, 2010 9:42:14 GMT
1. The Simpsons (1989-?) What can be said about The Simpsons that hasn’t been said a million times before? It could’ve gone down in history as one of the greatest comedy shows ever, but Matt Groening just didn’t know when to say “when”. Understandable in a way when you consider the unbelievable commercial success Simpsons has endured over the years, even in its increasingly mediocre years, but the writers and producers have undoubtedly damaged the reputation of the show and alienated a large proportion of the fanbase by refusing to let the show end in a dignified manner. If series 10 had been the last produced it could’ve been saved, but series 11 came and represented the beginning of the gradual decline. That the show is still carrying on and is now in its 22nd series shows how much the producers have refused to let it die, even if, in the eyes of many fans, it died in spirit many years ago.
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Pitt
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Post by Pitt on Dec 4, 2010 11:47:22 GMT
Matt Groening supposedly wanted to end The Simpsons years ago, but it's almost completely out of his hands now.
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 4, 2010 15:43:05 GMT
I was hoping Peep Show might have made the list. There's something really creepy about Mark Corrigan procreating!
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 4, 2010 16:07:41 GMT
I was hoping Peep Show might have made the list. There's something really creepy about Mark Corrigan procreating! Peep Show's on the "almost" list. The last series was a definite decline in quality from previous, but I believe it's still redeemable if the new series is good enough.
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Post by madhair60 on Dec 4, 2010 16:09:19 GMT
Good, you're done. Now I can finish my list.
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Post by Alex on Dec 4, 2010 16:11:04 GMT
The past season of The Simpsons has some of the best episodes they've ever made. Since the movie, there's been a pretty large increase in quality - so I wouldn't really call it fair to say it's gone on too long. Maybe a few years ago, but it's certainly making an effort to redeem itself now.
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 4, 2010 16:38:07 GMT
I'll be honest, I haven't seen any of the more recent Simpsons episodes due to not having Sky at home, the most recent I saw would've been about midway through series 21, and I saw nothing up to that point to suggest the quality was on the rise again, it still struck me as a show that had long since run out of ideas.
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Post by madhair60 on Dec 4, 2010 16:44:46 GMT
The past season of The Simpsons has some of the best episodes they've ever made. It definitely doesn't
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Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Dec 4, 2010 17:01:54 GMT
Good, you're done. Now I can finish my list. New rule; no-one is allowed to post a Top 10 List of Stuff thread when Stu is posting one. Because his will be better, funnier and probably sexier. Thankyou.
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Post by ShayMay on Dec 4, 2010 17:04:46 GMT
New rule; no-one is allowed to post a Top 10 List of Stuff thread when Stu is posting one. Because his will be better, funnier and probably sexier. Thankyou. That's what I'VE been saying! My new Top 10 coming tomorrow, folks!
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Post by madhair60 on Dec 4, 2010 17:24:28 GMT
I was kidding, but I was secretly serious.
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Post by Robert Frazer on Dec 4, 2010 19:15:29 GMT
I wouldn't call myself a rabid fan of the Simspons (I had a couple of bits of merchandise but I never had a Bart Simpson duvet cover), but used to be a regular viewer when I was younger - the 6PM double-bill on Sunday on Sky One was always reserved for me. That's well in the past, though - I haven't watched the show in years. It was like a webcomic that you used to check regularly but never looked up once it was deleted off of your browser's bookmarks - once my routine was disrupted it really just drifted out of my concern. I've occasionally thought about getting back into watching it, but it would require an exertion of conscious effort to do so and there's always been something else that I'd rather spend my time on. I missed out on the movie, and reading about things like "Flanderisation" even secondhand really dissuade me from going back to it, too. You can't deny that the Simpsons has seeped into the general public consciousness, though - this bittersweet little comic is the cloest I've got to the Simpsons in a long time, and even at a remove of maybe eight years it really did tug on the heartstrings.
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Post by The Tikal who had no Toes on Dec 5, 2010 20:18:38 GMT
That comic made me tear up, I admit. Me and one of my exes used to have conversations like that.
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Dec 8, 2010 0:43:34 GMT
What can be said about The Simpsons that hasn’t been said a million times before? It could’ve gone down in history as one of the greatest comedy shows ever And still will. Not trying to be a dick, I swear, but I think the sheer strength of seasons 3-10 are more than enough to give it the right to be remembered as an all-time greatest comedy show. An all-time greatest comedy show so far...
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
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Post by Spudiator on Dec 8, 2010 9:49:50 GMT
Not trying to be a dick, I swear, but I think the sheer strength of seasons 3-10 are more than enough to give it the right to be remembered as an all-time greatest comedy show. A fair comment, and one I actually do agree with. However, there is surely no doubt that the overall reputation of any great show is sullied if it goes on for so long after the quality of episodes has dropped so much. The problem with Simpsons (apart from what's already been covered) is that it doesn't appear that the end is in sight, which means it's surely only a matter of time before the poor episodes outnumber the good ones (if it hasn't already happened), and once that happens the show is lost forever into mediocrity.
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Post by madhair60 on Dec 8, 2010 13:44:58 GMT
Dude, there are far more bad Simpsons episodes than there are good ones now. They're up like, series 23 or something. The good years were 2-7, with scattered excellence in 1, 8 and 9.
(Those are just my picks, the majority agree than 1-8 are the "good" seasons, but I like to be more specific)
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