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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 23, 2011 17:21:38 GMT
BBC has to send a letter of apology to the Japanese embassy.This is all to do with them making light of the man who survived both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs, only dying last year at the age of 93. Apparently the Japanese embassy really didn't like that. So apparently calling someone lucky for surviving both bomb drops or unlucky for being involved in both is offensive now? And there was me thinking that the average Japanese game show involved dropping two nukes on some poor sod. Seriously, I've watched the segment in question several times and I don't see how it could possibly have been offensive towards Japanese people; the same Japanese who still white-wash the atrocities they committed during World War Two (not that I want to make light of them, but the casualty list from the bombings is only about a twentieth of the deaths which resulted from the Japanese occupation of China) and whose idea of entertainment in their programmes apparently consists of slapping someone really hard in the crotch and trying not to wince so they can proceed. I do seem to recall that the Japanese government still don't like to discuss their war history, so that may have something to do with it... But honestly! This really does strike me as complaining for the sake of complaining.
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Post by Blizz on Jan 23, 2011 17:41:28 GMT
Oh, come ON....
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lordgazza
Big Time Boomer
"What part of stay away from the apple tree did you not get?!"
Posts: 222
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Post by lordgazza on Jan 23, 2011 20:09:03 GMT
Seems abit like an over reaction alright if they issued apologies for every time a show took the mick out of us Irish or any other nation the postal services would be worked to death.
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Spudiator
Artist Hume
High Priest of the Religion of Football
STC-O's resident footy obsessive
Posts: 2,815
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Post by Spudiator on Jan 23, 2011 21:57:24 GMT
Saw this on the BBC News website earlier, does seem like something of nothing to me, such is the way of the world though. In a related note, what's the betting that there'll be something in the news tomorrow about Top Gear offending Scousers for depicting a Porsche 911 up on bricks with the wheels nicked following John Bishop's appearance in tonight's show? The world has no sense of humour any more!
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Post by Super Sonic on Jan 23, 2011 22:14:58 GMT
what's the betting that there'll be something in the news tomorrow about Top Gear offending Scousers for depicting a Porsche 911 up on bricks with the wheels nicked following John Bishop's appearance in tonight's show? Slim to none. |
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Post by Balls on Jan 25, 2011 1:27:33 GMT
BBC has to send a letter of apology to the Japanese embassy.This is all to do with them making light of the man who survived both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs, only dying last year at the age of 93. Apparently the Japanese embassy really didn't like that. So apparently calling someone lucky for surviving both bomb drops or unlucky for being involved in both is offensive now? And there was me thinking that the average Japanese game show involved dropping two nukes on some poor sod. Seriously, I've watched the segment in question several times and I don't see how it could possibly have been offensive towards Japanese people; the same Japanese who still white-wash the atrocities they committed during World War Two (not that I want to make light of them, but the casualty list from the bombings is only about a twentieth of the deaths which resulted from the Japanese occupation of China) and whose idea of entertainment in their programmes apparently consists of slapping someone really hard in the crotch and trying not to wince so they can proceed. I do seem to recall that the Japanese government still don't like to discuss their war history, so that may have something to do with it... But honestly! This really does strike me as complaining for the sake of complaining. |
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 25, 2011 9:51:02 GMT
 G-gomen nasai, Studio-san... taisetsu na minna, yurushite kudasai... |
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 25, 2011 10:30:22 GMT
I agree that I didn't really find the QI segment offensive. On the other hand, the whole of this post is pretty damn offensive in itself. Well, I'm oh so sorry that you're so offended by facts and absurd stereotypes which have root in facts. The Japanese government are incredibly arsey about their role in WW2. Recall that barely four years ago, one of their major parties dismissed the Rape of Nanking as a "hoax" (and that was an event that made even the Nazi liaisons sick). Unlike the Germans, who are still incredibly open and forthright (and frankly self-flagellating) about WW2, it's the Japanese who seem to like to pretend nothing happened. Of course, maybe I should've pointed out that I meant the Japanese government and nationalists, and it would be the case that the man on the street accepts the Rape of Nanking happened. |
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 25, 2011 10:52:38 GMT
 K-kowai desu...! Yamete! Y-yamete kudasai! |
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Post by Calisto on Jan 25, 2011 12:32:26 GMT
Studio, why are you copying directly what East said? I can understand opening the same thread on EN, with the same opening paragraphs, but that's stretching it quite a bit. I might as well quote from someone on EN as well, in regards to this thread:
~ Kyubi
Some people still deny the Holocaust ever happened, it's not surprising that the Japanese government are trying to hide their past, considering what happened. While Germany have admitted to the Holocaust, it might be a long time before Japan admit their part in things.
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Post by Nam on Jan 25, 2011 12:47:45 GMT
Stu, seriously, we get it, you're a Animephillic Weeaboo. But seriously, quit using Japanese as a way to stealth insult/feign annoyance towards/be deliberately cryptic to/generally get on everyones tits with your image posting weeaboo ways. You're pretty much now just trolling for the sake of trolling. Annoying when it was you who said the forum needs to try harder with posts, and actually post some interesting, relevant, and/or thoughtful posts. Studio, why are you copying directly what East said? I can understand opening the same thread on EN, with the same opening paragraphs, but that's stretching it quite a bit. I might as well quote from someone on EN as well, in regards to this thread: ~ Kyubi Some people still deny the Holocaust ever happened, it's not surprising that the Japanese government are trying to hide their past, considering what happened. While Germany have admitted to the Holocaust, it might be a long time before Japan admit their part in things.
If the forum wasn't already aware, EN is now required reading to understand what's going on within STC-O.  |
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 25, 2011 13:37:09 GMT
Studio, why are you copying directly what East said? I can understand opening the same thread on EN, with the same opening paragraphs, but that's stretching it quite a bit. You're right, and I apologise. My problem is that I can't put across those same points even half as eloquently (seriously, you should've seen what I did originally have in mind for my reply; it would've gotten me into a lot of trouble). I know that doesn't excuse blatant plagiarism though, and I should've given the proper credit. |
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 25, 2011 13:38:36 GMT
quit using Japanese as a way to stealth insult/feign annoyance towards/be deliberately cryptic to/generally get on everyones tits with your image posting weeaboo ways. I almost never use Japanese, this might be the first time I've done it besides in my username, which says "Stu". It was a light-hearted joke in reference to the subject matter... first post is Japanese girl apologising for the atrocities of WWII, then the second is her asking that we stop arguing. It's the most relevant it's ever been, and it's only a bit of fun anyway. If someone feels like translating it, then they can, and maybe get a giggle out of it. There's no insult to be found. I was just joking, for goodness' sake... not attacking anyone or anything. Please, don't try to pretend that the entire forum is against what I post, because they're not. [censored] you for posting that, actually. How [censored]ing dare you. I think my time here is drawing to a close, if that's considered to be an acceptable thing to say. Edit: Incidentally, I was bullied by people like you at school. Cowardly, safety-in-numbers bullies. Overcame it though, and I'll be damned if at 23 I'm going to put up with it. |
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Post by ShayMay on Jan 25, 2011 13:48:11 GMT
I really, really fail to see how Stu's posts were cryptic or confusing enough to warrant a personal attack, or how they could be called trolling.
Now, I have a limited knowledge of the images in question, having never gotten around to watching the entirety of K-On!, and I've not even been introduced to that character. I, however, am able to understand what Stu means by them. Take them as large emoticons.
As for the Japanese text, I quickly made a trip to Google translator, and found what they meant. I didn't guffaw at them or anything, but I got that Stu was kidding, and it all made sense in context.
I don't feel that "Animephillic Weeaboo", or accusing him of steal insulting, etc. was called for in this context, dude. If you're against the large images, then I understand, but you could have been more civil with your complaint.
On-topic: I find it pretty strange that Japan was insulted by the comments. I echo the sentiment that I really didn't find anything insulting in the clips.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 25, 2011 13:55:33 GMT
Oh bloody bleedin' blimey, this has suddenly gone all kinds of wrong...
Okay, I was too lazy to look up the Japanese text in a translator, and of course not being a fan of animé I really don't get Stu's references. In all honesty though Mitch's snarky attack felt far more insulting and more like blatant trolling.
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Post by Matt on Jan 25, 2011 13:56:04 GMT
I also think we have to understand the difference between Germany and Japan in this.
Germany and Japan were both under an form of radical nationalism that viewed in indigenous race as at least in some ways superior to other genetic stock, however the reasons for each country going to war and committing the acts they did are very different.
And while the ultra nationalist polices in Japan did have some level of support from the common man, you have to remember this was not ever a democratic choice of the people of Japan, Democracy had been defeated in Japan, giving rise to a take over by ultra nationalists and the Military... who wanted to take over other countries based on the idea of defending Asia from a western imperialism and had bad relation with the U.S for a variety of fairly sensible reasons as well as some not too sensible.
Germany however had democratically voted Hilter and his party in to power in 1933 because of various social and economic reason including the injustices of the treaty of versailles, the wall street crash which had crippled the U.S reliant Weimar republic, as well as fear of communism, Jew and the annoyance at the ineffective slow nature of there proportional representation that made policy making a nightmare in germany.
Also while it seems Studio's word are east from E.N i'd also like to point out..
The U.K has never claimed responsibility for many of the terrible acts of oppression, rape, destruction of culture etc, carried out by the grand imperial British Empire.... we created Pakistan and India as countries and can very much be blamed as former colonial master for the nuclear tensions that exist today not to mention a million more sins.
We have left scars and damage across the world that we have not admitted to. It's menioned 4 years ago a Japanese minister denied an event happened
George W bush says he has no regrets about a war on terror that led to the systematic abuse of suspects and guentanemo bay
Tony Blair has said the evidence to support the war being legal was unimportant because he prime minister and he said war was ok.
Britain has never formally apologized for it's role in the transatlantic slave trade.
Also I think it's wrong to say the country that took up a Pacifist Constitution in 1947 and adopted a lasting form of democracy and became members of the U.N have pretended nothing has happened
These do not seem the policy of a country that has forgotten about there role in world war 2
While other major player in WW2 spend around anything from 1.3% to 4.3% of there GDP on Military output Japan spends less then 1%.
Let's also remember that no other country has ever been subjected the horrors of being attacked by nuclear weapons. A move used only to end the war a little faster,
"The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it." J. Samuel Walker, chief historian of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
during the allied occupation of Japan, we suppressed any mention of these tragedies that killed more than 420,000, so were just as much in the game of deny our role in the slaughter and massacre of others.
I also think your confusing the issue, while the Naking Massacare, and the imperialistic occupation of China and other parts of Asia was a terrible sustained event. (which let remember the government of Japan apologized for even if some say not sincerely or properly enough, whereas the U.S has never apologized for Nuclear attacks on Japan.)
That does not stop the deaths of over 400,000 mostly civilians in a unneeded (debatably) attack in only two bombs from being a terrible event that Japan wants treating with some respect.
Your saying Japan has not atoned for it's crimes, as i've already said many countries have not atoned for sins of the past, but more over. Japan has not said that America, the allies or Q.I need to apologize for Nuclear attacks on Japan, only for treating it as Light entertainment.
The same as when a Japanese Military Commander was dismissed for claiming the Horrors committed by Japan didn't happen.
Or when groups like the BNP make light or denied the holocaust.
People want apologies for using these events as the subject of fun or to deny them.
Which is different from having a hard time nationally dealing with a complicated past as an imperialistic country.
I agree that the Q.I clip did not strike me as offensive having said that, you can't say just because it doesn't offend your sensibilities that people from another culture who have suffered the horrors of Nuclear bombs can't see it differently.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Jan 25, 2011 14:02:22 GMT
I agree that the Q.I clip did not strike me as offensive having said that, you can't say just because it doesn't offend your sensibilities that people from another culture who have suffered the horrors of Nuclear bombs can't see it differently. I just find it utterly hypocritical, and believe me I'd be saying the same things if it was Britain or America or wherever the [censored] else pulling a similar stunt. As I already said, I wasn't trying to make light of the bomb attacks themselves and I'm not disputing the impact it had on the Japanese people; it just struck me as such an absurd thing to complain about in the first place, even if we take cultural differences with Japan into account. How the hell is it offensive to call someone lucky or unlucky for having two nuclear bombs dropped on him and living to tell the tale? Christ, I wish I'd never brought this subject up now. |
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 25, 2011 14:02:25 GMT
I can sort of get Japan's reaction - any perceived hypocrisy aside, it is serious business to them. As cultures there's a massive disparity in how we receive jibes about our history.
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Post by Matt on Jan 25, 2011 14:20:03 GMT
I agree that the Q.I clip did not strike me as offensive having said that, you can't say just because it doesn't offend your sensibilities that people from another culture who have suffered the horrors of Nuclear bombs can't see it differently. I just find it utterly hypocritical, and believe me I'd be saying the same things if it was Britain or America or wherever the [censored] else pulling a similar stunt. As I already said, I wasn't trying to make light of the bomb attacks themselves, it just struck me as such an absurd thing to complain about in the first place, even if we take cultural differences with Japan into account. How the hell is it offensive to call someone lucky or unlucky for having two nuclear bombs dropped on him and living to tell the tale? Christ, I wish I'd never brought this subject up now. but I think we can't call them hypocritical, because to do so is in fact for the reasons I posted hypocritical I know you weren't trying to make light of the bombs studio, but simply it's important to bare in mind why Japan might see it different to us. I can see why to a british person it seems a bit silly, were just saying the man lives twice, what P.C madness. But knowing the history of Japan think of it this way, we were part of the side that developed these bombs. We were the side that dropped these bombs illegally (possibly) and un-needly (again debatably) on a country that hadn't voted to be part of this war they found themselves. Then to have us occupy them and suppress any talking about the bombs (like living under germans post WW2 and not being able to mention the blitz but worse) and then have a few humorists make light of the whole thing as a funny curiosity witout highlighting the terrible event or accepting Britains part in the bombing, all in a country that think that Nuclear Weapon are a subject thats not useable as comedy. see what I mean it's a cultural misunderstanding, I'm not saying your to blame or a terrible person, but bear in mind that other people will see the world differently. edited for clairity, bad spelling and such... oh me |
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Post by Balls on Jan 25, 2011 15:14:55 GMT
[quote author=studioasperger board=media thread=11348 post=452288 time=1295963733Mitch's snarky attack felt far more insulting and more like blatant trolling.[/quote]
Snarky attack? Trolling?
No, my friend. I stand by what I said and it was perfectly valid. Most of your post was completely irrelevant and just insulting the Japanese needlessly.
Simply put, the Japanese didn't like having anything about Hiroshima or Nagasaki being made light of. Personally, yes, I feel that the people in question are being a little over-sensitive about a program as innocent as QI and indeed the scene in question, but all that crap about the Japanese government and their attitudes concerning the events of World War II wasn't necessary or relevant in the slightest. Thus, its inclusion was just bitter and spiteful.
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Post by Retro on Jan 25, 2011 16:10:39 GMT
Right, this is causing enough back and forth discussion among both members and moderators over the resolution of the argument thats broken out here.
The argument drops as of my post here, while it is discussed and analysed by the mod team. Any parties involved can expect to be contacted in the near future. (It would be immediate, but a few mods are non present right now)
Edit - YOU SAW NOTHING SHAY MODS DON'T TYPO ANYTHING
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Post by Warped‽‽‽ on Jan 31, 2011 2:17:40 GMT
Heh. As the HSBC adverts have always taught us, cultural differences are important. A joke here is a slap in the face somewhere else.
Nevertheless, bit extreme reaction by the Japanese.
Only it isn't. The ones complaining are almost assuredly the exact paradigm of our own complaining old bints, who get arsey and complain about equality/sexism/anything and everything they feel like on TV.
But then of course, our butt-licking, anxiety prone, pushover of a government then needs to apologise as soon as the first complaint comes in for fear of rocking the boat.
And THEN BBC news splatters it all over everything for OUR complaining old bints to get right back into the game and wonder why we're apologising for a comment we'd barely even consider giving a second thought. And before you know it, a little bit more human intolerance is bred between everyone, despite the best (misguided) efforts of those who wished to avoid that.
In short, whiners breed whining. (Should have been obviously, really)
minor edit:
Just saw last post. Am I okay if I say this wasn't aimed at anyone on the board and apologise in advance if someone has managed to take this post to heart?
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 31, 2011 11:37:25 GMT
YOU [censored] [censored] YOU I'LL [censored] KILL YOU
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