|
Post by Arch on Sept 14, 2011 11:06:21 GMT
Sonic Adventure, 1999 - Dreamcast We move on to the "second" era of Sonic games now, starting with possibly my favourite of them all. It had been a few years since I'd played my last Sonic game (Sonic 3D), bought my last issue of STC (or, at least, had my dad buy it for me) and I'd moved on to the Playstation. Seeing the shiny new Dreamcast in store, bundled with a completely 3D Sonic game (and 3 other titles of minute importance) - it was time to rekindle an obsession. Sonic Adventure is perhaps the last time Sega took the classic formula and applied it to a 3D game (with perhaps the exception of SA2, but not completely). There's item boxes, Badniks, end of level capsules, Tails is following Sonic, it feels like a perfect progression from S3&K in many places. However, the 3D forces a lot of limitations, with the majority of levels all linear, perhaps providing one or two alternate short routes per level, if at all. It's a bumper game, with 11 "Action Stages", 4 Adventure Fields and 6 mini-games, not to mention Chao raising, emblem hunting and DX's mission mode. You won't get bored in a hurry. The levels are pleasantly varied; the first level isn't a green level, but it's still great. Windy Valley is your traditional start, before completely mixing it up. Casinopolis starts well, but the necessity of collecting 400 Rings is tedious in, what is essentially, a minigame. Knuckles' level is much better. Ice Cap is a great throwback with brilliant music and a much improved snowboarding experience. Twinkle Park is another successful experiement, throwing in kart racing, rollercoasters, bowling, a hall of mirrors and one massive shortcut. Speed Highway shows you what the DC can do by having Sonic speed down steep, looping streets. Red Mountain flits from being a high-altitude speeder to your traditional lava level. Sky Deck has so much variety for one base it hurts - dodging the cannons can be exhilirating. Lost World is a nice idea and the theme is good, but it's too long and fiddly. Final Egg is a suitably challenging final level. Hot Shelter's the only non-Sonic level and it's a bit naff for everyone. People complain about the Adventure Fields, but I think they're done better here than in 06 and Unleashed. The Past field is a joy to run and fly around, even though there's absolutely nothing here to do. Same with Angel Island, which goes some way to relive boyhood dreams of actually living there. Minigames are alright; Sky Chase is a bit boring, Ice Cap and Sand Hill are practically identical, Twinkle Circuit could do with being just one long lap and Hedgehog Hammer, somehow, ends up being the best one. The story's great, and it amazed me (at the time) how well they could interlink 6 different stories. I was also amazed at the time to see Amy included, not knowing she was a Sega character and not just the STC hero I knew. Big's levels aren't as bad as people make out, unless you're going for the 2000G challenge. Gamma is fun to cause havoc with and he definately does it better than Tails/Robotnik next game. Finally, Super Sonic is a massive climax and, even though experienced players can complete it in a couple of minutes, the Perfect Chaos battle is still a brilliant ending. Music's fantastic, too, especially remixes of past levels. There's so much to say that's good about this game but I don't want to go on and on. There's obviously the bad (camera, glitches, voice acting) but it's heavily outweighed by the good, I believe.
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 14, 2011 12:07:58 GMT
As much as this is a broken game. With fishing (It isn't good in any game. ANY) and Amy. Broken Camera, controls, glitches. Yes the voice acting and lip sync is mostly terrible. And this started the president of Eggman being usurped by his villain of the week gimmick.
Its still the best 3D Sonic. Still tried to do momentum. And the chills I got when I start certain levels.
Its amazing to think that with Super Monkey Ball and Ultra Marble Blast showing that 3D and Momentum can work and some 11 years of hardware improvement, this is still Sega's best attempt at 3D Old School Sonic.
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Sept 14, 2011 12:34:50 GMT
Unfinished, glitchy, appalling mess of a game. Objectively, it's awful.
Still love it. Charms me to bits. Such wistful nostalgic memories of staring through the shop window at the opening cutscene running on a loop. Every time I boot up the DC version and hear the old "Sonic Team *ding*" my poor, embittered heart skips a beat. It's pure Sega, and has that particular Dreamcast feel, which can save even the most mechanically unsound games (Jet Set Radio, looking at you).
Sonic Colours is the best 3D Sonic game, though.
|
|
|
Post by Beeth on Sept 14, 2011 12:45:01 GMT
I have DX, so I don't get "Sonic Team *ding*".
|
|
|
Post by MentalAnalysis on Sept 14, 2011 14:37:18 GMT
the field levels were fun to mess around in when you were stuck at a certain part in the game and you were bored out of your mind, trying to figure out what goes where for the first time. Especially the mystic ruins massive jungle. Nowadays, it looks like a complete mess but back then it was fun to get lost in there with your chosen character at the time.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Sept 14, 2011 15:44:29 GMT
DX goes a long way to correcting some of the original's issues, but it's rather apparent at this point that Sonic Team didn't have a clue what they were doing and that the game was rushed to retail well before its time. It's, unfortunately, the trend-setter for the entire rest of the main series until it culminates in the practically unplayable Sonic 2006.
That said, what they did right, they did well. I enjoy a lot of Sonic Adventure, and loved the story-telling in it (even if it is horribly paced and disjointed). A lot of that comes from the long-standing wish to see stories in the games like I'd seen in STC (which was even more long-standing to me, since I picked this up on the Gamecube, not the DC). That said, I played this after SA2:B, which has the stronger story and the stronger gameplay, plus a few less obvious glitches and bugs. If I could have played them in the correct order, I may have more love for SA, but it was SA2B that got me back into the series after a long absence and it's the one I hold in that much more cherished part of my memory.
|
|
|
Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on Sept 14, 2011 15:46:10 GMT
I still maintain that Sonic Adventure was the last truly great Sonic game until Sonic Colours came along (going by the big console releases here; the Advance series is a nice little trilogy, in my opinion), but looking at it objectively it hasn't aged well at all. The unsightly glitches, terrible camera and themore heavy-handed attempts to add variety to the proceedings stick out like a sore thumb now, which is a shame as, to me, it still feels like an authentic Sonic game (a pretty linear one, but at least it still felt like there was a sense of momentum to everything) and has some truly brilliant gaming moments. What it does right, it does really right.
Shame that it would be downhill from here for little over a decade.
|
|
|
Post by Nam on Sept 15, 2011 7:30:17 GMT
Sonic Adventure is one of those games where they tried to do too much, without thinking "would this actually work?". Fishing is the main example of things that are added here that simply don't belong, but there are so many other mini-games (such as the Sky chase levels, the whack-a-hedgehog, the snowboarding) that on paper seem like a good idea, but in reality are merely short distractions to add variety. In an odd way though, the sheer amount works in it's favour, adding the variety and stopping some of the more tedious characters from getting monotonous to play as.
As far as the characters go, I hate doing Big's stuff, Tails and Amy don't ever really get to slow down to explore and Gamma is against the clock, he doesn't get much chance to see it either. Only Knuckles (where you spend too much time looking at the radar to gauge where the bits are), and Sonic get the proper freedom to explore the stages.
I don't personally like the adventure fields. They're not gigantic, but there size means there's very little to do in them. It's good for upgrades, and it is fun to nose around the Egg Carrier, but when you're just trying to get to a certain level, it gets old fast.
But the thing I hate most about this game is the Chao Garden. It's tedious, boring, disengaging, and is a really desperate act of padding. Raising Chao's takes ages, with the stat increases given from animals being tiny, and everything costs way more rings than one would realistically be able to obtain. There are items in the shops that cost 2,000+ rings, which is five playthroughs of Casinopolis. Does anyone really want to replay levels that much just to get one item to raise one stat on one Chao by a fraction of a level?
But otherwise it's a fun game. Good bosses (especially the last boss as Sonic and Tails), great music, a storyline that works but isn't too OTT, a nice bit of variety (if only fishing wasn't mandatory...), and generally a lot of fun in spite of the flaws.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Sept 15, 2011 10:25:47 GMT
But the thing I hate most about this game is the Chao Garden. It's tedious, boring, disengaging, and is a really desperate act of padding. Raising Chao's takes ages, with the stat increases given from animals being tiny, and everything costs way more rings than one would realistically be able to obtain. There are items in the shops that cost 2,000+ rings, which is five playthroughs of Casinopolis. Does anyone really want to replay levels that much just to get one item to raise one stat on one Chao by a fraction of a level? You don't have to do any of this. You could happily go through most of the game not knowing what a Chao was, if you wanted. Also, buying stat-boosting things was a DX-only addition, I think, introduced after SA2. If you wanted those things in the original Sonic Adventure, you needed to connect to a Tiny Chao Garden (which was interesting, but I never had the means to transfer them). Next game: Sonic Pocket Adventure, 2000 - Neo Geo Pocket Color I've haven't played this in a long time, so there's not much I can say about it. What I do remember, I dislike. My main gripe is the screen size, with Sonic taking up most of it. It honestly feels worse of a problem than it did on the Game Gear games, and they could get bad. The other is the rehashing of Sonic 2 levels, albeit with some new features. I won't completely slag this off, it had some good points and I didn't even finish it so it could've got better. It was also a 2D Sonic platform, the first since the dreadful Sonic Blast, so it was an improvement on somthing, I guess. *waiting for Stu to say I'm wrong*
|
|
|
Post by Beeth on Sept 15, 2011 10:47:21 GMT
Sonic has one ball. On topic: It's decent. Though like Alex, I got SA2:B first, so I remember the latter more fondly. Sonic Adventure isn't without its charm however, it had some creative, if risky, ideas for its time, and a pretty good story, if a bit unsteadily paced. Was never keen on its Chao garden like, vastly inferior to SA2B's. Chao Race is a lot more pot luck for a start. I have 121 out of 130 emblems. Of the 9 remaining, 5 of them are all 5 of the Chao Race emblems. It's ridiculous, haven't even won the first one yet. For the record, the other 4 are all Sonic A stages. They're pretty tricky, especially Lost World against the clock. Haven't come anywhere near finishing that bugger yet.EDIT: Seeing as it was posted ahead of me without me noticing: Sonic Pocket Adventure. Never played it, never seen it in action. Even with the advent of the Internet, I'm barely aware of this title.
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Sept 15, 2011 10:59:31 GMT
Chao Garden is an exercise in absolute tedium. I wouldn't have minded so much, but the fact that you NEEDED to do it to complete the game 100% (and unlock Metal Sonic unf) was a bit of a kick in the balls. Still, an enjoyable game. I feel that if they had used this as a base and just kept ditching the bits that didn't work and keeping the bits that did, we'd have ended up with a 3D version of the 2D games. Never played Pocket Adventure. I fail to see why I would want my pockets to go on an adventure anyway - I keep my wallet in there.
|
|
|
Post by L. T. Dangerous on Sept 15, 2011 11:31:36 GMT
Catching up:
Fighters is super easy. Apparently the reason the Robotnik fight is so easy is because they made his attacks too overpowered and realised if they didn't all-but disable him, nobody would ever win. Not a brill game, some alright music. Quirky graphic style. Not so recommended, but a nice footnote.
Sonic R is a good game if you want to kill a rainy afternoon. It won't take you long to finish and the balance is non-existent. Frankly, Sonic pees from on high onto all the other characters and Super Sonic is so painfully overpowered that he's a gamebreaker. The music's cool if a bit corny.
Sonic Adventure is a grand game, thoroughly enjoyable (I'm going by the DX edition). It is let down massively by the fishing, however, and I will never understand people who claim that particular addition was good. It wasn't, it isn't and it never will be and Sonic Team were quite right to learn from that and never include it again, even in games Big has returned in. It destroyed the game's pace (even though you only play as one character at any given time). The hunting levels aren't much more fun, though it's only in SA2 that they become dreadful and an exercise in pain.
Raising Chao is obnoxiously tedious. I feel somewhat compelled to write a dissection of Chao raising. Short version: it's bad and not good.
Sonic's final fight with Robotnik is very unfair if you don't know what you're doing (and, let's be honest, the jumping doesn't help very much). That suicide dive is pure evil, too, there's no way anyone would react to that in time unless they knew it was coming.
Good game.
Never played SPA.
|
|
|
Post by Nam on Sept 15, 2011 15:16:24 GMT
Has anyone bar Arch actually played Sonic Pocket Adventure, or even own a Neo Geo? All I know about the game is it's an amalgamation of stuff from Sonic 1 and 2, and even that I'm not 100% on.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Sept 15, 2011 15:20:07 GMT
Has anyone bar Arch actually played Sonic Pocket Adventure, or even own a Neo Geo? All I know about the game is it's an amalgamation of stuff from Sonic 1 and 2, and even that I'm not 100% on. I didn't say I owned a Neo Geo...
|
|
|
Post by Balls on Sept 15, 2011 15:42:56 GMT
I played it a bit.
Was alright.
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 15, 2011 15:45:31 GMT
I played it a little.
From what I remember, Its basically Sonic 2 with Sonic 3+K music.
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Sept 15, 2011 16:23:07 GMT
I own three copies. :I
It's class, really good. One of the best handheld Sonics. The equal of any Sonic Advance, easily. It has the Megadrive feel down, the NGPC joystick makes it a joy to play, the puzzle pieces are well hidden and add tons of replay value. It's got Sonic 2's level archetypes, but the layouts are entirely different. One of the hidden gems and well worth tracking down.
Only problem with it is you can't erase your save file. Ever.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Sept 21, 2011 13:17:31 GMT
Another quick one, just to get back into this: Sonic Shuffle, 1999 - Dreamcast I only played this once. For about half an hour. In 2007. I'm not the right person to talk about this game. I am, however, one of the few people to have played it, I wager. It's Mario Party, but with Sonic characters. There's game boards, minigames, a very loose story. From what I remember, it's very much like the multiplayer mode on Secret Rings, especially that one where you're on a board opening treasure chests. I don't like either of them, I just don't get on with party games. especially cos I aint got no friends ;___;Yeah, that's all I remember. NEXT
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Sept 21, 2011 13:25:20 GMT
Garbage. I own three copies. No idea why.
|
|
|
Post by Beeth on Sept 21, 2011 13:32:30 GMT
Garbage. I own three copies. No idea why. Stu only bought a piffling three copies of this game. Three. That's how turd this game is.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Sept 21, 2011 13:43:06 GMT
Garbage. I own three copies. No idea why. Stu only bought a piffling three copies of this game. Three. That's how turd this game is. He also owns three copies of SPA. With my incredible logic, that makes these games equally playable.
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Sept 21, 2011 14:36:18 GMT
what is wrong with me
|
|
|
Post by Beeth on Sept 21, 2011 14:40:55 GMT
One for sale, one for use, and one for Sunday best.
|
|
|
Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on Sept 21, 2011 15:43:06 GMT
I actually managed to complete this as Knuckles on my own.
Horrible game.
I thought the Cel Shading was good until you look closely and see you have got the Adventure textures (underneath?)and it looks ugly.
|
|
|
Post by Nam on Sept 21, 2011 17:08:57 GMT
If it's as fun as it looks, then it's bad.
I, like many others, have never played this, due to the fact that I, nor anyone else I knew, ever had a Dreamcast. [/input]
|
|