|
Post by madhair60 on Jul 8, 2008 11:22:19 GMT
I scratch my head every time you post something like this when I notice you're a moderator. While it's reasonable for you to criticise STC Online, the way you do it is unnecessarily hostile. I can't help but feel that something went wrong along the way with your tenure as mod. And while you're at it, take off those rose-tinted spectacles. There was some truly atrocious artwork in STC to go with all the great stuff. I think the latest stuff that Zak, Smithy and Adamis are doing hold up extremely favourably against that early Elson material. Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I have to defend STCO at every turn. It means I have to moderate the forum alongside other lovely people. To clarify - STCO looks lovely, but to my eye it doesn't look like STC. It doesn't feel like STC. Stuff like this makes me even more eager to see my scripts in there so you lot can destroy them.
|
|
JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
|
Post by JJ on Jul 8, 2008 11:34:21 GMT
To clarify - STCO looks lovely, but to my eye it doesn't look like STC. It doesn't feel like STC. Don't you think this has something to do with the fact that it's made by different people? It was never going to be the same, a different creative team will do that. We can do our utmost best to ape Elson and Kitching, but it'll never truly happen. You can't possibly expect it to be identical to the print STC? We're proud of how close we were able to make it, but nobody has ever pretended to succeed Elson. The guy was too damned awesome. Yes, you are setting yourself up for a fall, there. It's a good thing your scripts are actually very good, then.
|
|
|
Post by Balls on Jul 8, 2008 11:54:10 GMT
Just remembered I'm supposed to be in the middle of drawing one of those scripts and I'm way behind...
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Jul 8, 2008 12:06:29 GMT
Sure, sure. I can see that. I just don't think it feels anything at all like the old comic. It's good - really - but there are just things that don't gel right with me. A full page of Tikal crying, for example. You would never see that sort of thing in STC.
But like you say, it's not STC, so fair play to you all. It's just that by purporting to be a continuation, you invite comparison (from me especially, it seems).
|
|
JJ
Script Hume
Bit of a hack, really.
Posts: 4,902
|
Post by JJ on Jul 8, 2008 13:21:12 GMT
A full page of Tikal crying, for example. You would never see that sort of thing in STC. Sounds a bit like having a whole page of Super Sonic laughing, though.
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Jul 8, 2008 13:27:16 GMT
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. WHOOPS
|
|
Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
|
Post by Tom on Jul 8, 2008 14:10:58 GMT
Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I have to defend STCO at every turn. Of course it doesn't. It means you have to moderate your own behaviour and language in order to set an example for everyone else. One-line insults like the one on the previous page are not appropriate (and somewhat untrue, given that a number of the STC Online staff have actually had a significant amount of their work published).
|
|
|
Post by Robert Frazer on Jul 8, 2008 15:34:58 GMT
When this issue about the productivity of STCO was raised I felt it worthwhile to investigate just what volume of work the comic achieves, particularly when the real output is always disguised by the uploading of material in batches. In 2007 STCO published four issues (one issue more than 2006, and one of those only had two strips) plus a Christmas Poster Mag. Excluding all of the Review Zones, Pin-Ups and other content but including the issue covers, each issue contains eighteen pages of full-colour comic art, plus one for the dual-cover experiment in No. 242 and eight for the Poster Mag strip and cover. That makes a total of 81 pages for the year, and an average update rate of substantially more than one per week, comparing favourably with other webcomics. It's also a trend of improvement over the entire history of the comic: 2003 - 70 pages. 2004 - 79 pages. 2005 - 70 pages. 2006 - 57 pages. 2007 - 81 pages. STCO isn't the most active comic on the web - comics like Scary Go Round, Drowtales, The Phoenix Requiem, & Girl Genius maintain a prodigous output, with great intricacy in the latter three cases (and frankly The Phoenix Requiem needs that rapid update rate, seeing as the story advances with as much alacrity as a comatose beached whale!) - but equally it's far, far from being lifeless and inert. Most comics with daily updates tend to be cartoon strips or else have much cruder and poorer art (such as Questionable Content), comics like Dr. McNinja are full-page and update more frequently but are in black & white, and STCO certainly cannot be placed alongside comics like VGCats ("tomorrow, honest!") or like Post-Nuke, Alpha-Shade & No Rest for the Wicked ("Eh, whenever I can be arsed"). When a STCO issue is released you reliably know that you're getting three strips, and there won't be constant hand-wringing schedule slippages from a continuous-update comic (paging Megatokyo). The shine on STCO's productiveness does become a little scuffed when you see that it's a whole group of people producing comics at a rate only partially more than one determined creator (e.g. The Zombie Hunters), but then not every drawer here is already in the midst of an art degree either (indeed, the artist for The Zombie Hunters has mined her comic for her university work on occasion), and in any case STCO is handling many more different sorts of story with divergent threads and has a reserve of work kept from instant publication for favourable dates. Altogether, STCO isn't a driving powerhouse of new content but in terms of gross volume it is in a comparable range to other webcomics, and so makes a fair showing of itself.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jul 8, 2008 16:41:33 GMT
Rob, do you want to be our official spokesman whenever our level of output gets criticised? In case you were wondering it takes me roughly five times longer to do a page of Vichama than it does to draw a regular page. Aren't you glad you decided to paint it?
|
|
|
Post by Retro on Jul 8, 2008 17:31:35 GMT
Rob, you have awesome taste in webcomics. I salute you sir.
|
|
|
Post by madhair60 on Jul 9, 2008 14:48:50 GMT
Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I have to defend STCO at every turn. Of course it doesn't. It means you have to moderate your own behaviour and language in order to set an example for everyone else. One-line insults like the one on the previous page are not appropriate (and somewhat untrue, given that a number of the STC Online staff have actually had a significant amount of their work published). It was hardly an insult. It was an opinion. Come off it, Tom.
|
|
|
Post by Mambo's Here! Look Busy! on Jul 9, 2008 16:06:40 GMT
Rob, you have awesome taste in webcomics. I salute you sir. Quoted FTW! Doctor McNinja is brilliant, the guys at the lab recently introduced me to it. :3
|
|
dk
Big Time Boomer
Posts: 148
|
Post by dk on Jul 9, 2008 19:09:13 GMT
I enjoyed this issue, but I thought that the Sonic strip lost a lot of momentum from where it left off.
|
|
Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
|
Post by Adamis on Jul 12, 2008 21:01:15 GMT
(As a side note, Adamis has done that on several occassions, and less than a month sometimes too IIRC. I don't know how he manages it, but that's why he keeps turning up on so many strips. How's he not been hired professionally?!) Late reply, sorry (back from vacations). I don't really know myself how I can draw that much pages in short times, given that I'm working on three webcomics at the same time (StCO, The King of Hedgehogs and Lammy )... Well, with Lammy, I'll try to get hired professionnally soon (the portfolio is almost finished...)
|
|
|
Post by redmenace on Jul 14, 2008 2:56:27 GMT
Just read, liked it a lot.
The Sonic strip had beautiful art and I'm really liking the setting here. An anti-Sonic arc maybe... Also it would be the perfect setting for Robotnik to shoe his way in again. I wasn't bothered by the list of villains Sonic enumerated but for the first time I noticed how many of them existed. One thing I was thrilled about was the fact that Sonic could NOT stop the rocket from exploding. When I saw him go for the wires I really though he was going to make it. I turn the page and was pleasently surprised. I like this surprising things. Also I've noticed something. This may well be one of Sonic's downfalls and it's also portrayed in the games to a certain extent (game Sonic is mainly there for the thrill, I enjoy this personality trait a lot, he's not your typical goody-two-shoes). He really likes playing the hero, like he says, there was no one there, there are other zones in the world, so why bother enderaging one of the few people who can make a difference? Sonic doesn't think about the consequences of his actions at all. There may be something in the future that he'll regret, something he shouldn't have done (not just' I wasn't there on time, I couldn't save everyone') but a really nasty choice. I'd like to see that, not because it's a dark or emo thing but because it shows one of Sonic's flagrant weaknesses (yes I know Sonic isn't supposed to show his feelings, but I'm not saying that either).
The Rouge strip was confusing and cluttered (although with very nice art), but even if it wasn't done on porpuse, I think it made a perfect set up for the whole theme, building as the story progressed. At first glance you don't get what it's happening at all, everything very confusing (just like the story itself and Rouge's plan) then if you look closer... I also noticed an emerald drawing in the tapestry behind the spokesman but Knuckles has them all so it might be nothing.
The Shorty strip was nice, I really don't have much to say... I liked it though, but I did liked the other two better.
Really liked the pinups. I will print one tomorrow and cover my notebook with it.
|
|
|
Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jul 14, 2008 11:12:04 GMT
An anti-Sonic arc maybe... Also it would be the perfect setting for Robotnik to shoe his way in again. I don't know whether it would fit with Sonic's character, but I think it would be quite good if his mistreatment by the people who he had spent years saving messed Sonic's head up a bit and meant that Sonic became a bit of a recluse and gave up the hero game, allowing Robotnik to return and gain a large amount of power before something makes Sonic start fighting again.
|
|
|
Post by redmenace on Jul 16, 2008 4:42:45 GMT
It really depends on how he's handled. Sonic isn't an easy character. People might think he is but he's not. He's a character who's there for the kicks, he's reckless and he likes to play the hero part. On the other hand he cares about his friends but at the same time he's free as a bird and acts detached. Because of this he doesn't show his feelings often but they're there. It's easy to see that he considers Tails his "brother", even though they're not always together they pair up in every aventure, it's easy to see that Sonic's true rival is Knuckles, because in a way or the other, they respect each other (that's why I don't like the way Knuckles' characterization in recent games was), it's easy to see (in SA1, SA2) that Sonic feels weirded out around Amy but at the same time always rushes to save her (ambiguos, but still you get it to a certain extent, that's why I hated 06 when you had to chose, it's stupid). The balance between his characteristics is very hard to do. This is why that endind in SA1 was so perfet and that's why he looked so fricking out of character in Sonic 06.
STC Sonic is also arrogant and cocky, has a morbid humor too. It's easier to show some traits from him but there are some who end up harder.
It has to be very well done to work. Until now I'm liking. Maybe Sonic will eventually get pissed off by all this events and his impatience (and pride, which Sonic's STC has in loads) will triumph against his hero side. I'd like to see him struggle though. Perhaps his friends turning against him? I'm not seeing them doing it though. Maybe he'll say screw this, I'm out of here, eventually coming back later.
|
|
|
Post by The Stiv™ on Jul 16, 2008 5:01:24 GMT
Sonic's been attacked (verbally at least) by the public. There are definitely a few who now mistrust him and he's not the kind of character to let that pass. I don't blame him, to be honest. After all he's done for them. And yeah, Sonic's been known to run away from his troubles before. Arch's idea sounds great to me.
|
|
|
Post by Knuckles on Jul 16, 2008 5:04:10 GMT
Sonic will never say "screw this". He can't. Someone is messing with him and he will not rest until he finds out who. Not because he is the hero, but because someone is making him look bad. His ego wouldn't allow him to let it slide.
If his friends forgave him after "Running Wild" I doubt they'd turn on him now. They've been through much worse before...
|
|
1989 sonic
Big Time Boomer
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5079/989sonic2vf.jpg
Posts: 198
|
Post by 1989 sonic on Jul 17, 2008 18:33:08 GMT
Ok first of all I got to say this. The artwork for the strips are awesome and nicely done. but the story in Sonic: Whodunit? was dark and Sonic seem to be more of a Ass hold an normal but I can see why overall it was good story and I want to know what happen next.
Rouge Alert was ok and had funny parts to the story I like to know what happen next in part two because part 1 was good hope the next part is good as well and lastly on the story it made me feel like watching a Bourne film bit but funny and oddly
Tekno & Shorty: I'm not big fan of this story but still pretty good to read and endding is very odd but thats all I got to sat on this one
overall I say: 8/10 for the hold comic. nice job on this issues keep it up one of the batter issues of is online come
|
|
|
Post by redmenace on Jul 18, 2008 2:41:53 GMT
Sonic's been attacked (verbally at least) by the public. There are definitely a few who now mistrust him and he's not the kind of character to let that pass. I don't blame him, to be honest. After all he's done for them. And yeah, Sonic's been known to run away from his troubles before. Arch's idea sounds great to me. Yes, I agree but this guy's also right: Sonic will never say "screw this". He can't. Someone is messing with him and he will not rest until he finds out who. Not because he is the hero, but because someone is making him look bad. His ego wouldn't allow him to let it slide. If his friends forgave him after "Running Wild" I doubt they'd turn on him now. They've been through much worse before...
|
|
|
Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Jul 18, 2008 12:35:06 GMT
Yeah, I don't think Sonic would drop this, I kinda meant after he'd found the culprit who set him up, if he turned his back on the public, just like they did to him (in his eyes). It would also allow the next big bad, whoever that is, to get a bit of a power base, and maybe allow the focus of the comic to shift to the other freedom fighters a bit. Maybe show them fighting and losing battle a bit, before bringing Sonic back into the fray.
|
|
1989 sonic
Big Time Boomer
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/5079/989sonic2vf.jpg
Posts: 198
|
Post by 1989 sonic on Jul 19, 2008 12:25:49 GMT
Yeah, I don't think Sonic would drop this, I kinda meant after he'd found the culprit who set him up, if he turned his back on the public, just like they did to him (in his eyes). It would also allow the next big bad, whoever that is, to get a bit of a power base, and maybe allow the focus of the comic to shift to the other freedom fighters a bit. Maybe show them fighting and losing battle a bit, before bringing Sonic back into the fray. I like what you say man. this hold thing with sonic losing trust in the public this a good story but it's a risk too because from what I'm seeing it's 50, 50 some like it some don't. 50% of people are likening this plot with sonic getting slam in the media and the other 50% don't like it. But thats a risk you take with makeing story's sometimes. I didn't like the hold "THE FAMILY" side of the story but I like the thing going on with PERCIVAL KANE bit hes good character. thats all I got to say right now
|
|
Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
|
Post by Pitt on Jul 19, 2008 15:15:20 GMT
Who came up with Kane's full name? Regardless, he must now be referred to as PJ Kane. Ha ha ha.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jul 19, 2008 15:18:18 GMT
PJ? Maybe.
|
|