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Post by Knuckles on Nov 6, 2007 22:52:14 GMT
Angelus was loads better than Angel. He was just a sap! hee hee I kinda liked the fact that Super was dependent on Chaos energy... kinda like Sonic's clone that dissipated into energy once his life ended.... kinda infers that anything thats not the original is fundamentally flawed one way or the other... in a sense they were both energy beings. OT a bit but so was Angelus. What really annoyed me is the most famous vampire in all the world is finally free after 90 or so years and all he does is kill Jenny. Oh and a goldfish. WTF!! Whedon should've been far braver and made him more vicious than he did. After all we are led to believe he is an animal who takes pleasure in the kill. He just seemed watered down to me. Back on topic... Were Supers powers dependant on Chaos energy? I know Sonic being near the master emerald triggers Super but he has also turned yellow in stressful situations when there are no emeralds about
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Post by Insector on Nov 6, 2007 22:56:35 GMT
The whole point of him absorbing the Chaos creature was because he was dying of a rather nasty case of chaos deficiency. It had never been mentioned beforehand, but as far as plot devices go it was quite a good one.
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Post by Knuckles on Nov 6, 2007 22:59:35 GMT
The whole point of him absorbing the Chaos creature was because he was dying of a rather nasty case of chaos deficiency. It had never been mentioned beforehand, but as far as plot devices go it was quite a good one. Ah right, only read Chaos saga a couple of times and even then it was a good few years ago. Damn stc archive not working anymore
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Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
Posts: 7,007
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Post by Pitt on Nov 7, 2007 20:07:06 GMT
Back on topic... Were Supers powers dependant on Chaos energy? I know Sonic being near the master emerald triggers Super but he has also turned yellow in stressful situations when there are no emeralds about From what I gathered, Sonic soaked up a bit of the Chaos energy when he transformed for the first time. Therefore, it seems that it's just something that's always inside him and is activated by emotion. It's a bit like the Hulk, which I understand was the basis for the STC angle on the character.
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Post by Samface on Nov 7, 2007 21:19:09 GMT
Chaos energy exacerbated the transformation, though. In his early appearances, Super was much less psychotic (even going so far as to carry out a close-to-normal conversation with Tails in "Hill Top Terror", #21), but his transformation in "Running Wild" was caused by Sonic falling into the weird energy field that surrounds the Emeralds when they're stored in the Emerald Chamber, creating a more powerful and vicious Super, and that was what stuck.
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Post by Knuckles on Nov 7, 2007 21:46:19 GMT
Chaos energy exacerbated the transformation, though. In his early appearances, Super was much less psychotic (even going so far as to carry out a close-to-normal conversation with Tails in "Hill Top Terror", #21), but his transformation in "Running Wild" was caused by Sonic falling into the weird energy field that surrounds the Emeralds when they're stored in the Emerald Chamber, creating a more powerful and vicious Super, and that was what stuck. Could it perhaps be a retcon of sorts that Sonic now transforms because of Chaos energy and not due to stress? I know a lot of Chaos energy brings about the change (landing on the Master Emerald then destroying the Metallix or as mentioned above falling in the Emerald Chamber and attacking Amy and Johnny) but previously it was in near death situations wasn't it? Almost falling in a volcano or the issue in Oil Ocean Zone (his first appearance I think).
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Post by Charles on Nov 8, 2007 1:43:33 GMT
OT a bit but so was Angelus. What really annoyed me is the most famous vampire in all the world is finally free after 90 or so years and all he does is kill Jenny. Oh and a goldfish. WTF!! He also murdered and attempted to murder scores of Sunnydale students simply to get at Buffy, and he was only prevented in killing Xander by the love spell infecting Dru. And he almost killed Faith in Angel S4. But yeah, in most episodes, the Scoobies should really be glad they're up against Angelus and not, say, a completely healed and pissed-off Spike. They got off very lightly with Spike. Not that we can comment - Super Sonic never gets a chance to do real damage, the poor bugger!
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Post by Knuckles on Nov 8, 2007 1:58:55 GMT
OT a bit but so was Angelus. What really annoyed me is the most famous vampire in all the world is finally free after 90 or so years and all he does is kill Jenny. Oh and a goldfish. WTF!! He also murdered and attempted to murder scores of Sunnydale students simply to get at Buffy, and he was only prevented in killing Xander by the love spell infecting Dru. And he almost killed Faith in Angel S4. But yeah, in most episodes, the Scoobies should really be glad they're up against Angelus and not, say, a completely healed and pissed-off Spike. They got off very lightly with Spike. Not that we can comment - Super Sonic never gets a chance to do real damage, the poor bugger! True, he did. But in all honesty he should have been as evil as we were lead to believe he was and done something like kill Willow's parents or the like, something to really make a statement (Jenny was killed because she was about to re-ensoul him. I would have loved a nice death of someone REALLY close to her just as a statment of his true evil. Passion aside he never did anything to Buffy that warranted being the most feared vampire ever and had his ass kicked so many times. I personally think he was scared. He knew killing Xander or Willow would be a step too far and that she would not hesitate to kill him after that. Just look at the episode Killed By Death and his exchange with Xander. As for Super Sonic he was watered down because it;s a childrens comic essentially. But the brilliant thing was even though he never killed (no way would STC allow Sonic to kill someone) he was still written so well that the more mature or older readers can see just how dangerous he his. Stories such as "Running Wild" illustrate this. Sonic does no real damage at the end of the day, Johnny and Amy still live but we still see firsthand a psychotic and dangerous side to Sonic that I don't think has been explored in any childrens comic before. And Super was just the tip of the iceberg of course, every character in Sonic was thought through so much just like Whedon did with his characters so we had such a mature and well written comic. I don't think any other comic aimed at children could spark debate on wether their title character is a hero or not
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Post by Feniiku on Nov 8, 2007 11:15:25 GMT
Y'know, this is one of the few topics I've read fully, and I'm liking the debates you guys are coming up with. But something irks myself and Thalia. We were talking about this topic the other day, and one thing came up-
Sonic carries emeralds around and doesn't go Super -just- be being around them. We were trying to work that out, and wondering just -how much- energy it takes to cause him to go Super.
Or even if he does it on purpose.
I mean, sure that goes against his whole hero agenda, but he has gone Super on purpose at least once. And he rarely seems to be too bothered that he's just gone on a rampage. Running Wild doesn't bother me so much, because that was a hell of a lot of energy to be around. The stress times I'm almost certain he does deliberately, at least by instinct.
As to the rest of the topic, Yes, Sonic's got a huge ego, and is a very proud character. He doesn't like admitting he's wrong, because, as I see it, he prefers being the one who has all the answers.
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Post by Knuckles on Nov 8, 2007 13:06:09 GMT
Y'know, this is one of the few topics I've read fully, and I'm liking the debates you guys are coming up with. But something irks myself and Thalia. We were talking about this topic the other day, and one thing came up- Sonic carries emeralds around and doesn't go Super -just- be being around them. We were trying to work that out, and wondering just -how much- energy it takes to cause him to go Super. Or even if he does it on purpose. I mean, sure that goes against his whole hero agenda, but he has gone Super on purpose at least once. And he rarely seems to be too bothered that he's just gone on a rampage. Running Wild doesn't bother me so much, because that was a hell of a lot of energy to be around. The stress times I'm almost certain he does deliberately, at least by instinct. As to the rest of the topic, Yes, Sonic's got a huge ego, and is a very proud character. He doesn't like admitting he's wrong, because, as I see it, he prefers being the one who has all the answers. Yeah, I wondered how landing on the Master Emerald turned him Super then he was able to carry it around and handed it back to Knuckles no problem. But then I reasoned it was out of he Emerald Chamber and therefor had less energy about it and so Sonic wasn't affected
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Cellsai
Big Time Boomer
Rolling around.
Posts: 121
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Post by Cellsai on Nov 8, 2007 13:07:18 GMT
Now there's an interesting angle Kane could take with his current smear campaign... Hell, even someone doing a psychological evaluation of Sonic and confronting him about it could be kind of fun! XD
Going back to the old school Super transformations though, my STC knowledge is kind of rusty, but since both Super and Sonic were combined again, Sonic has never transformed into Super aside from his run in with Shadow. I can't recall the specifics of that last fight, but I think they were in close enough proximity to the emeralds when it happened? Maybe after Super almost died from bleeding off all his Chaos energy, it's a lot more dificult for him to transform because there's less energy in his system?
Also, back to the original topic of this thread, I'm also of the opinion that Sonic's guilt over creating Robotnik and not saving Johnny and a fear over what he does as Super drives him to the control freak he has become... also the fact that he pretty much single handedly saved the entire world from a borderline insane dictator is bound to give him a bit of a messiah complex. The main problem with tackling this is that on numerous occasions, Sonics allies have disagreed with what he wants to do and it's virtually always turned out okay... until something completely ground [censored]tering happens that is absoloutly one hundred percent Sonics fault, he will never learn that he isn't always right.
Also, Stiv pointed out something about Kane's broadcasts are turning Mobius and the boards agains him... laughed my ass off at that when I realised it was true XD
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Post by Charles on Nov 8, 2007 15:29:30 GMT
Going back to the old school Super transformations though, my STC knowledge is kind of rusty, but since both Super and Sonic were combined again, Sonic has never transformed into Super aside from his run in with Shadow. He transformed in issue 226 (and almost in 224) due to the presence of massive chaos energy, but he was only transformed for an extremely short space of time. In the Shadow story, he transformed due to extreme stress. Well damn it, he did threaten Hilltop with violence!
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