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Post by Hevs on May 17, 2012 9:25:13 GMT
I think it's ridiculous that they've YET AGAIN, in the face of complaints over such things, copied another level exactly (Sky Fortress). Physics feel a bit better, but jeez Sega, Dimps? Sega did a grand job of Classic Sonic's Physics in Generations, if they made Sonic 4 with that then it'd be a winner.
Also, the music. Oh god, the music. I liked Sylvania Castle's music (Along with everything about that level. It's beautiful), but do they not realise that it all sounds ridiculous? It doesn't even sound like something out of the Megadrive games. The whole thing that excited me about Sonic 4 was a progression of the series due to new technical capabilities, and they decide to shoot themselves in the foot by having this awful racket. I mean, there's a DUCK in Oil Desert #2.
Also, White Park is, visually, a mess. There is far too much crammed in to the background and foreground and none of it gels together well at all.
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Post by Matt on May 17, 2012 9:38:58 GMT
got all the emeralds, but I don't seem to have unlocked any 'good ending' no super sonic jumping out to screen, no thanks for playing, just the absence of the try again screen... slightly dissapointed
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on May 17, 2012 10:31:50 GMT
I think I've figured out the problem with the music. Back in the Mega Drive days, each of the Sonic games sounded quite different in terms of the variety and depth of sound, but all of them got the absolute most out of the sound chips they used. For example, there's a distinct improvement in the sound between Sonic 1 and 2 and a massive improvement between 2 and 3&K, then 3D and Spinball head in totally different directions but sound great as well- yet each one of them pushed the system to the limits of its capabilities so all sound awesome.
Compare that with Sonic 4, which is trying to be retro using modern technology and it's like they took an enormous step backwards. It's not as if they couldn't have used a program to imitate the Mega Drive- just a look on YouTube will reveal plenty of amateur recreations of Sonic tunes in different styles of retro, so I rather doubt Sega couldn't manage it.
As with episode one, I feel like I have to point out just how good Mega Man 9 and 10 sound and how good Scott Pilgrim sounds. So why can't Sega manage it?
Also it's as if they've forgotten how to make good, catchy tunes. Which is a shame because Senoue used to be amazing at that.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on May 17, 2012 17:16:12 GMT
Well, I can tell you one thing; the special stages are absolutely mutilated, bloody atrocious. The control feels so stiff and slow, and I swear that some of those rings are impossible to get to.
The final special stage, especially, goes way too far. There's a whole bunch of rings on the ceiling that you can't get, not without a booster which there isn't one on the approach. Why can't you go on the ceiling like you could in Sonic 2? Unless there's some obscure trick I'm missing, that's a good portion of the rings which can't be picked up. Then there's the final section... Oh good God, what a train-wreck. You have to nail the ring-gathering combos perfectly, but I tried really hard with this and can only conclude that it's absolutely impossible to do this without a second player; the AI Tails always tries to keep as close to you as possible, which is the absolute worst thing it can be doing when you need to use the rope pickups to grab rings that are so far apart!
So thanks very much, Dimps, for ruining yet another fond childhood memory. Doesn't help that the rest of the game up until this point has been annoying in the extreme, completely uninspired level-wise and with no sense of flow. I can't believe that they somehow managed to make Episode 2 even worse than Episode 1; that is one hell of an accomplishment.
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Post by madhair60 on May 17, 2012 17:59:23 GMT
Press X to speed up.
Incidentally, you know that flying segment on Oil Desert Act 1? Where you have to fly over the bottomless pits?
[censored] IT
IN THE ASS
[censored] IT TO DEATH
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on May 17, 2012 18:04:30 GMT
Incidentally, you know that flying segment on Oil Desert Act 1? Where you have to fly over the bottomless pits? [censored] IT IN THE ASS [censored] IT TO DEATH I second that. Completely and utterly. Oh, and thanks for the tip (though to be honest I don't recall seeing it mentioned anywhere in the manual). Don't know how much good it'll do with the whole combo business, mind...
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Post by madhair60 on May 17, 2012 18:08:45 GMT
Died like ten times on that [censored].
Edit: Oil Desert was passable, and the boss is legitimately enjoyable.
Edit 2: Got to the Sky Fortress boss, rage quit. Heinous.
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Post by Tom J on May 17, 2012 19:18:53 GMT
Sky Fortress 2's music's kind of nice. Oil Desert 3 hurts my ears. Metal Sonic's theme is ehh, reminds me of a probably better song. Sylvania Castle is kind of blah. The whole soundtrack is kind of blah. I'll buy this when it's less than a quid.
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Adamis
Artist Hume
Yay
Posts: 1,339
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Post by Adamis on May 17, 2012 21:30:02 GMT
Press X to speed up. Incidentally, you know that flying segment on Oil Desert Act 1? Where you have to fly over the bottomless pits? [censored] IT IN THE ASS [censored] IT TO DEATH Huh ? It's easy Never lost a life there... Re 7th special stage : use the turbo as soon as you get the "link with Tails" item and press left, so Sonic and Tails will collect tons of rings. You should be fine for the next part if you collected 420 rings minimum (I managed to get 465 !)
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Post by RedDevilDazzy on May 17, 2012 21:52:23 GMT
Press X to speed up. Incidentally, you know that flying segment on Oil Desert Act 1? Where you have to fly over the bottomless pits? [censored] IT IN THE ASS [censored] IT TO DEATH I know what bit you mean dude. I died so much at that bit I got a Game Over.
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Post by madhair60 on May 17, 2012 22:22:21 GMT
Huh ? It's easy Never lost a life there... don't make me record a 40 minute video demonstrating why it is objectively not easy, because I will and I don't feel like it ._.; but yeah you are a known fibber so chinny reckon
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Post by Matt on May 17, 2012 22:30:35 GMT
Huh ? It's easy Never lost a life there... don't make me record a 40 minute video demonstrating why it is objectively not easy, because I will and I don't feel like it ._.; but yeah you are a known fibber so chinny reckon To be fair my girl friend who doesn't really play sonic or really play video game and can't finish sonic 1 got past that second try. I mean I think to each there own, I'm not saying you didn't find it difficult, but just that conversely other's might have found it easy. I'm kind of with you on the sky fortress boss, but I did find it easier once I got in to the rhythm of it, I think the bit where all the lasers fire at once twice is stupid, basically in half of situations it's unavoidable, depending on the momentum you have built up previously. also on repeated play through on co-op mode... god having it as a separate mode does it no favours, when picking up controller 2 as a kid you knew tail would bearly get a look in play wise. but in it's own Co-op mode, when it plays just the same it only tails can lose you lives and rings it becomes almost a joke, particularly when playing with a sonic novice, it certainly isn't pick up and play. Though fighting the bosses two player is more fun.
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Post by sidewinder on May 17, 2012 22:44:07 GMT
So yeah I'll stick with Diablo 3 albeit the bos fights are new but the music is lack lister still along with the special stages. Allso agreed the level rehash is crap which is a Shame as at times it shows genuine creativity
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Post by Juliett. Bravo. Alfa. on May 17, 2012 22:57:52 GMT
I think I lost two or three lives at that bit Stu is on about. But that might have been because I saw him curse it here.
I do like the Metal Sonic theme. Would love to hear a version of it not rendered in Metallic Cats and Synth.
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Post by RedDevilDazzy on May 18, 2012 13:01:55 GMT
I beat the game today, finished off the rest of the remaining stages. The other Acts of Sky Fortress are ok. There's one part that reminds me of a section in Sonic Rush where you are running on that metal floor birdeyes view style I think. Metal Sonic was a pain in the ass though, still dig the song though. I like the Death Egg MK II, the music is quite catchy, and when it said Act 1, I thought there's 3 Acts of this, not the case. Metal Sonic once again was a pain in the ass, though it's that part from Sonic CD. I like the final boss though, atleast it wasn't another copy job, Sega already did that with Episode 1. Tails you actually become very useful in that boss.
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Post by Badly-Drawn Manchild on May 18, 2012 16:13:23 GMT
Finished it now with all the Emeralds. Why do I get the feeling there's something missing from the ending? Do I need to get the red rings too?
Anyway, that was a load of pants. Bland level design, cluttered backgrounds, half the game was on autopilot, the physics are still poor, the bosses are abysmal, the music's like hearing a cat getting strangled by an accordion in D-minor, the special stages are an insult to the originals, and the way the game shoe-horns in the whole tag gimmick reminds me uncomfortably of the bad old days.
Thank [censored]ing Christ this is the last episode. It's really sad that Sonic Team themselves produced a couple of solid games recently; why did they let Dimps make this load of tripe?
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Post by Matt on May 18, 2012 16:53:31 GMT
Finished it now with all the Emeralds. Why do I get the feeling there's something missing from the ending? Do I need to get the red rings too? Anyway, that was a load of pants. Bland level design, cluttered backgrounds, half the game was on autopilot, the physics are still poor, the bosses are abysmal, the music's like hearing a cat getting strangled by an accordion in D-minor, the special stages are an insult to the originals, and the way the game shoe-horns in the whole tag gimmick reminds me uncomfortably of the bad old days. Thank [censored]ing Christ this is the last episode. It's really sad that Sonic Team themselves produced a couple of solid games recently; why did they let Dimps make this load of tripe? I mean all of this is opinions, I enjoyed the game a you didn't fair play... but I just wanted to point out that I still really struggle with Sonic 2's special stage's, like even special stage 2 is a pain for me, whereas I got each emerald fairly easily because of the handy retry button :/ also don't bother getting the red ring, nothing change's nothing at all there not worth bothering with, trust me.
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Post by madhair60 on May 18, 2012 17:17:37 GMT
Sonic 2's special stages are terrible. To be fair my girl friend who doesn't really play sonic or really play video game and can't finish sonic 1 got past that second try. And I beat all the Mega Man Zeros with 100pts, and finished Super Ghouls N' Ghosts, and 100%d Super Meat Boy and The Binding of Isaac. It's possible I'm missing a trick, but I thought it was outrageously unfair.
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Post by madhair60 on May 18, 2012 17:56:32 GMT
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Post by Matt on May 18, 2012 18:55:55 GMT
Sonic 2's special stages are terrible. To be fair my girl friend who doesn't really play sonic or really play video game and can't finish sonic 1 got past that second try. And I beat all the Mega Man Zeros with 100pts, and finished Super Ghouls N' Ghosts, and 100%d Super Meat Boy and The Binding of Isaac. It's possible I'm missing a trick, but I thought it was outrageously unfair. see we both just thought, use flying, and follow the ring's, the wind is actually more help then hinderance, and the flame bot are easy to avoid, at least thats what I found. What I found stupid was the row of turtlebot's in sky fortress act one, that are very difficult and unfair to try and jump across.
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Post by sidewinder on May 18, 2012 19:54:29 GMT
Is it me or did sonic 3d blast do a better job at the sonic 2 style special stages then episode 2 ?
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Post by Nam on May 19, 2012 8:39:01 GMT
What I found stupid was the row of turtlebot's in sky fortress act one, that are very difficult and unfair to try and jump across. Oh good God yes. The whole game trains you to rely on the homing attack, then gives you that chain of jumps, where for some reason using a homing attack will [censored] you over (not like you'll get hit while jumping, you'll just miss the jump), but jumping regularly works. Also all the flying stuff is easy, it's just not immediately obvious that A) you can go below all the obstacle and below the signs that mark instant death, and B) so long as you make sure to land on each platform, you'll never really run out of flight. Of course it's all set up in such a way so it looks like you could just about manage it in one flight, but then you won't. The worst bit of flying is in White Park act 3, where you're underwater, having to fly past those sea lion badniks. they blow massive walls of ice, and are arranged in such a way that if you don't make it past them quick enough, it becomes an impenetrable wall of ice, and the only option is to die.
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Post by Matt on May 19, 2012 11:09:33 GMT
What I found stupid was the row of turtlebot's in sky fortress act one, that are very difficult and unfair to try and jump across. Oh good God yes. The whole game trains you to rely on the homing attack, then gives you that chain of jumps, where for some reason using a homing attack will [censored] you over (not like you'll get hit while jumping, you'll just miss the jump), but jumping regularly works. Also all the flying stuff is easy, it's just not immediately obvious that A) you can go below all the obstacle and below the signs that mark instant death, and B) so long as you make sure to land on each platform, you'll never really run out of flight. Of course it's all set up in such a way so it looks like you could just about manage it in one flight, but then you won't. The worst bit of flying is in White Park act 3, where you're underwater, having to fly past those sea lion badniks. they blow massive walls of ice, and are arranged in such a way that if you don't make it past them quick enough, it becomes an impenetrable wall of ice, and the only option is to die. yeah that bit's terrible, plus there a real lack of room for error on the spikes before hand, cause you can trigger the sea lions early and then stand no chance of letting through.
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Post by madhair60 on May 19, 2012 20:51:40 GMT
Say to me again that the third and last flying bit on Oil Desert 1 is "easy" and I will go mental. It's a complete [censored], and I have no idea how anyone could see otherwise.
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Post by Alex on May 19, 2012 21:20:47 GMT
I died there a few times, but it's definitely not the most broken, stupidest part of the game. The aformentioned sealion bit is. Died there way more times.
Anywho, played through to the Death Egg now. Actually really enjoyed a lot of the game. Far, far moreso than Ep 1. A lot of the music is actually alright, too.
Episode Metal's a bit disappointing but enjoyable enough - and off the back of it, I can't say I'd mind a 400 MSPoint expansion to play through Ep 1 with fixed physics and with Tails.
Inclusion of Tails into this game is actually really solidly done, too. It's a major part of what makes this game feel like an actual addition to the Sonic series, rather than just a rehashing of it.
Overall, a much better effort all around. I'm glad we won't be diverting any more attention to this failed experiment, but I'm also glad it turned out all right in the end.
Hoping to see more solid gameplay and level design like this and Generations in the next Sonic game.
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