|
Post by cellsai on Jan 12, 2013 13:38:17 GMT
Greetings. Despite how new this account looks I've been following this comic for coming up on seven years but I figured I'd pop in and say hello for once ;D
This has been a fairly interesting topic to read through and it's nice to see that changes to the formula are being considered because I also think things could be shaken up a bit for the better. Might want to put the kettle on, this is a long read.
While I mentioned that I've been reading for a while, I tend to only drop in every few months or so when I happen to think something along the lines of "Oh wait, StCO is a thing. I wonder if they've updated since February?" This random long time period between issues should be a top priority to fix as you've all discussed above. I love this thing you've got going, but it's just damn hard to keep checking back on this place when I know there's a good chance 3 months could go by without an update.
I know "omg make more issues" is easier said than done of course, but I think loosening the classic format restrictions are the way to go.
-------------------
Reduce the number of strips per issue. I would immediately abandon the 4 strip requirement and shave it down to 2. One story for Sonic and one for some other part of the universe. If there are more than 2 stories ready to go in a given issue then stick them in as a special 3 story issue or hold them back to ensure a timely release of the next issue.
I know this change would probably put a lot of strain on the ongoing plotlines as Sonic would need to be featured a lot more than others, but this is something that could be dealt with.
Alternatively you could drop the requirement for a Sonic strip entirely, but he's kind of the whole point of the comic so I'm not sure if that'd be a good move. :/
-------------------
Reduce the number of characters and plotlines This sort of relates to the reduced number of strips per issue. Characters desperately need to be trimmed. Oh god there need to be fewer characters. I'm looking at you, Ultimax.
As mentioned above, with a 2 week turnover on issues it was possible to have loads of stuff going on with Tekno and Amy off doing their own thing and Captain Plunder doing whatever the hell he wants to do elsewhere in addition to Sonic saving mobius. Even if an issue came out regularly every two monthes I'd still have trouble remembering what Sonic was doing last time, let alone what the 50 other StCO people are up to.
-------------------
Have artists working on several issues worth of comics simultaneously I don't know what the actual situation with artists is at the moment, so I could be completely talking out of my ass here.
If you have a surplus of artists and they all take forever to draw comics, why not stagger them a bit? Already have some people working on next issue's comics while this month's is in production. There's a higher chance of plot spoilers, but I'd take that risk a hundred times over if it meant a faster issue turnover.
This could be problematic with multi part stories though as it's generally not a good idea for artists to change mid storyline. To counter this, maybe you could have some plots run every second issue if the artist can't keep up with demand? Not really an ideal solution though.
-------------------
Insert 'Previously on...' pages before the comic This is a fairly simple thing that big publishers have been doing for a long time. Marvel knows the average reader will probably forget details in the month between issues of Spider-man so they put a recap of important events on the first page of the comic.
This is sort of already done in the Control Zone, but the casual Megadroidy way in which that's presented doesn't really work, especially since each story only gets 2-4 lines. Some of the plotlines in StCO have literally been running for years and I can't be the only one who forgets what's going on half the time.
Inserting a Page 0 before each strip with a 2 or 3 paragraph blurb of what's going on would do wonders for catching up. The first paragraph could be a general overview of the character the strip focuses on ("Sonic is the former hero of Mobius, but is now a fugitive because yadda yadda") and the following paragraph(s) would explain exactly what happened in the preceding issue if it's needed ("After finding plans for the construction of a new Wing Fortress, Sonic and Tails board the vessel but yadda yadda").
---------------
So yeah, there's my very massive list of suggestions. Fair [censored]s to y'all for keeping this place running as long as you have. It's a great thing even with the various bugs and hiccups!
|
|
|
Post by rj on Jan 12, 2013 14:01:46 GMT
room for improvement:
let me write and/or draw and/or color and/or letter for this comic
this is my only suggestion, I will not elaborate further
|
|
|
Post by Matt on Jan 12, 2013 14:24:57 GMT
Hiya Thanks for your post there is certainly a lot of things you mention here that are good ideas, and we'll take it all on board. certainly many of the issues you've brought up we know are things we need to work on, and we are trying our best. we are experimenting with the number of strips, you may have noticed 259 only had 3 strips but we made sure to follow it quickly with the christmas special. Going forward we'll kept trying experiments that gets more content to you guy's without being unfaithful to STC. The only thing I will say is difficult is the comment on artists, while we do have a number of talented artists we already have people working on stories way in the future, and we have often held back stories maybe 2 years (thats how far ahead of time there done.) but things change artists drop out, or take longer than they thought, and it can throw thing off when stories rely on each other. we'd love people to come back more often, getting a regular update has always been hard for us, but it's not impossible and we will do our best. Hope this helps and if you have any more comments or question please feel free to post more, I'd love to hear your thoughts and thank for reading for so long, it really means a lot to all of the staff team. room for improvement: let me write and/or draw and/or color and/or letter for this comicthis is my only suggestion, I will not elaborate further X for Mod 2012
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Jan 12, 2013 14:32:03 GMT
X for Mod 201 3. Welcome to the forums, cellsai! Some of the stuff you've said there is actually being considered and taken into account as we speak, so your first post's a good'un!
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jan 12, 2013 20:40:19 GMT
The first paragraph could be a general overview of the character the strip focuses on ("Sonic is the former hero of Mobius, but is now a fugitive because yadda yadda") and the following paragraph(s) would explain exactly what happened in the preceding issue if it's needed ("After finding plans for the construction of a new Wing Fortress, Sonic and Tails board the vessel but yadda yadda"). AKA, the Data Zone
|
|
|
Post by L. T. Dangerous on Jan 12, 2013 22:35:00 GMT
It's not a bad idea, mind you, and it would probably take about five minutes per issue.
|
|
|
Post by Charles on Jan 13, 2013 1:11:31 GMT
Though as I said, that's what the Control Zone is - it summarises the setup, the characters, and the last cliffhanger/story. Is it not clear enough that newbies should be checking the Control Zone? (If it isn't, we need to change that!!)
|
|
|
Post by cellsai on Jan 13, 2013 4:12:46 GMT
AKA, the Data Zone Woops, I meant to mention the Data Zone. Yep, the Data Zone is essentially what I was mentioning there. The main difference is that I have to go out of my way to read that. Whenever I see a new issue come out I always open it up and generally dive right into the comics in my excitement, then when I'm finished I go back and click all those non-comic headers at the top. (This is remarkably similar to how I devoured my actual issues of StC actually, so congrats on keeping the two experiences authentic ;D) The Megadroid intro similarly gets put to the sidelines because it doesn't just deal with the comic plotlines and talks about what's happened with the StC crew and Sega since the last issue. I think a lot of people are interested in that stuff (as I am), but I would feel the comic reading comes first. Maybe it's just me who skips past all that and goes straight to the comic, I don't know. Having a brief summary at the start of each comic would greatly streamline the experience though. All the specific information I need for a given arc is right in front of me before I start reading. And as mentioned would only take 5 minutes or so to prepare, especially if a standard template was created where you just slot in a background image and some text. I think both the Data Zone and Control Zone are valuable parts of the comic though and would not like to see them disappear even if these pre-comic specific summaries did get added. If they did get added I'd like to see the Data Zone entries expanded to be a little more comprehensive. The Previously On... sections would give you the information you need to understand the comic you are immediately about to read. The Data Zone would give a little more detail to previous events for those wanting to dig a little deeper, but is not essential reading if you just want to blast through the latest comics. I know this is basically doubling up information mostly already available in a given issue, but it's more about streamlining the Boomer's experience than offering new info. Also, on a completely unrelated suggestion note, someone mentioned back at the start of this thread that the Graphics Zone should be brought back. Someone also mentioned introducing a theme for each issue's GZ to encourage people to draw stuff. I love this idea.
|
|
|
Post by L. T. Dangerous on Jan 13, 2013 8:26:59 GMT
I also skip the Control Zone to get right to the comic. I like the fact we have a "message from the editor" page but I come for the talking blue hedgehogs.
|
|
|
Post by Chigs! on Jan 13, 2013 18:32:11 GMT
I like your suggestions cellsai! Shifting things around so that there's a "previously" right before the comic in question would possibly be the better way to organise it - the STCO wiki is becoming a valuable source for expanded knowledge of the universe, and the data zone could perhaps highlight sections of relevant articals as a way of "drilling deeper" after the stories have been consumed - it's very interesting to know how people cosume the content and in what order, so your feedback is appreciated!
|
|
ligero
Boomer
The Digger of Ideas
Posts: 60
|
Post by ligero on Jan 13, 2013 20:20:15 GMT
I went through these myself. These are some pretty damn good ideas actually. Cellsai, I'll say welcome aboard as a lot of those are...pretty well thought out.Reduce the number of strips per issue.I would immediately abandon the 4 strip requirement and shave it down to 2. This is a good idea in hindsight, as it puts the focus back on Sonic and lessens the work everyone has to do. (Bet it takes a strain off the artists to have to make different stories too..)
However, having more stories also means that other characters get exposure in their own little side stories. This way, we don't have to take time out the 'main' Sonic story, set him on the backburner and cover their arcs.
------------------- Reduce the number of characters and plotlinesThis sort of relates to the reduced number of strips per issue. Characters desperately need to be trimmed. Oh god there need to be fewer characters. I'm looking at you, Ultimax. OK, I'm a little biased on this on because it's about bloody time Tails got his own Freedom Fighters team and actual standing. (Plus I think Holly's character design is damn adorable.)
Characters desperately need to be trimmed.... not.. quite. I'm thinking you want to say "characters need to have resolutions." As in have these long story arcs tied up. Trimming the characters just leaves them stuck in limbo and later on people just wonder what the hell happened to them when they're just as important.
I.E- Sonic's no longer the main hero of Mobius. Crime and so on still happens. The writers here are trying to focus on a good chunk of it and how everyone else in the world deals with it. I personally like the other stories as they're a refreshing pace of "Meanwhile in OTHER parts of the universe..."Have artists working on several issues worth of comics simultaneously Now this is a tricky one. A VERY tricky one.
Remember. No one's getting paid for this one and are doing this out the goodness of their hearts and for fun's sake. Have to remind you, it's not something they're obligated to do here. If they want to, they can, as it's a freaking good idea. However.... you can't really blame anyone if they don't for the same reason. Insert 'Previously on...' pages before the comic That would work if this wasn't online. No offense. We don't really need a recap when everyone can click the 'back issues' tab and read the whole thing.
But I like where you're going with these. You put some time and good effort into thinking them up. Had to say something about them as a lot of them are pretty damn good.
|
|
|
Post by ShayMay on Jan 13, 2013 21:50:59 GMT
That would work if this wasn't online. No offense. We don't really need a recap when everyone can click the 'back issues' tab and read the whole thing. Actually, I see his point. I don't think we need a whole section, but perhaps a "last time, Sonic was doing [x] with [y]" just to jog people's memories wouldn't go amiss. I know it might seem kinda redundant, but with three months between releases people will forget, and it gets a bit trying backing up, checking the last issue and then reading the new one.
|
|
ligero
Boomer
The Digger of Ideas
Posts: 60
|
Post by ligero on Jan 13, 2013 21:52:50 GMT
I know it might seem kinda redundant, but with three months between releases people will forget, and it gets a bit trying backing up, checking the last issue and then reading the new one. Oh. Right. Forgot about the times in between each issue. Fair point.
|
|
|
Post by cellsai on Jan 14, 2013 14:50:44 GMT
Wow this post turned out [censored]ing massive. Sorry about this meandering wall of text guys! Reduce the number of strips per issue.I would immediately abandon the 4 strip requirement and shave it down to 2. One story for Sonic and one for some other part of the universe. If there are more than 2 stories ready to go in a given issue then stick them in as a special 3 story issue or hold them back to ensure a timely release of the next issue. Alternatively you could drop the requirement for a Sonic strip entirely, but he's kind of the whole point of the comic so I'm not sure if that'd be a good move. :/ This is a good idea in hindsight, as it puts the focus back on Sonic and lessens the work everyone has to do. (Bet it takes a strain off the artists to have to make different stories too..)
However, having more stories also means that other characters get exposure in their own little side stories. This way, we don't have to take time out the 'main' Sonic story, set him on the backburner and cover their arcs. My main reason for suggesting this reduction in strip count is to get comic issues out faster. I personally think the single most important problem to address with StCO is the turnover of issues and that needs the be the primary focus of any changes made to the book. With a 2 strip limit the issues could theoretically come out twice as fast, as the same amount of comics would still be written - they'd just be spread across more issues. So while the amount of content stays the same, the downtime between comic releases is greatly reduced while maintaining a solid, fully self enclosed comic. As mentioned though, this causes problems because the StC is not just about Sonic and the greater universe does still need to move on alongside him. So maybe a compromise could work out by taking a page out of Archie's playbook. (Please put down your rifles and hear me out for a second ) They have two different titles now to deal with this exact problem - Sonic the Hedgehog, which focuses on the titular hero and Sonic Universe, which revolves around the side characters. StC could do almost the same thing: split the comic into 2 issues with two strips in each. The first issue is Sonic plus one other strip, the second issue has two non-Sonic strips. 'Sonic the Comic' is released first, then once the other two strips are finished 'Sonic Heroes' comes out. This effectively means no changes are made to the way content is created for the comic, the book is just cut in half and can be released faster. -------------------------------- Reduce the number of characters and plotlinesThis sort of relates to the reduced number of strips per issue. Characters desperately need to be trimmed. Oh god there need to be fewer characters. I'm looking at you, Ultimax. OK, I'm a little biased on this on because it's about bloody time Tails got his own Freedom Fighters team and actual standing. (Plus I think Holly's character design is damn adorable.)
Characters desperately need to be trimmed.... not.. quite. I'm thinking you want to say "characters need to have resolutions." As in have these long story arcs tied up. Trimming the characters just leaves them stuck in limbo and later on people just wonder what the hell happened to them when they're just as important.
I.E- Sonic's no longer the main hero of Mobius. Crime and so on still happens. The writers here are trying to focus on a good chunk of it and how everyone else in the world deals with it. I personally like the other stories as they're a refreshing pace of "Meanwhile in OTHER parts of the universe..." I've sort of regretted posting that portion of my suggestions. Sort of. 'Trimmed' is definitely the wrong word there. After more thought I don't actually think it's the characters themselves that bother me, but is more in line with the 'characters need resolutions' you've mentioned and the general current feel of the universe. Currently Robotnik is waging a massive coordinated war on Mobius. He's arguably more dangerous at the moment than he ever was when he actually ruled the place, but the universe does not reflect that. Everything Robotnik has been doing feels like a series of unrelated, random (mostly unsuccessful) attacks on various zones. It doesn't feel like he's much of a threat - just a child lashing out at everything around him. The storyline with Ultimax leading Mobians out through the caves was the first time it really felt that Robotnik was actually taking over/destroying the planet again and it felt completely out of place compared to the other stories: Amy and Tails were stopping a random hostage situation, which felt like it was back in the normal Robotnik-is-long-gone era. Sonic and Tails were having a very retro badnik-of-the-week style comic with the Winged Fortress, which felt like it was back in the Robotnik-rules-Mobius era. So to try and wrap up my very messy train of thought, I think my issue isn't actually with the number of characters themselves, it's that every character's arcs feel totally disconnected from each other. These are my suggestions for dealing with that: - The crime side of Mobius needs to be wrapped up (at least temporarily) and let the Freedom Fighters get back to defending Mobius from Robotnik's invasion, at the very least just to show that it is a really serious thing.
- Robotnik needs to be shown to be making progress on his invasion. This has already been shown in the Ultimax story, but because it wasn't backed up by the others it lost virtually all of its impact.
- Unless the various other villains are going to be actually contributing to Robotnik's plans it might be an idea to actually casually swipe them off the board for the moment. Spend one issue just cleaning house and at least temporarily tying up all currently active dangling plot lines so the focus can return to Robotnik and bring the universe a little more cohesion.
This strays far more into personal opinion territory though and isn't really as important as the first point.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jan 14, 2013 16:01:42 GMT
It'd be nice if some of the Breaking News content was used in an actual story related to the war. I remember when Sonic's World used to be about new, one-shot characters in unusual situations, like BARF's Badnik repairing and the creation of Shortfuse.
I can see why the Sonic/Tails and the Ultimax/Silver/Knuckles vs the Gizoid/S.P.E.A.R./Tekno and Shorty/Digital Shadow/Family/Ancient Echidnas/Order of Magick/Blaze plots take priority, though.
|
|
|
Post by RetroMartin on Jan 15, 2013 22:23:52 GMT
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if it's being done for free, only DIRE things need improving on, you wouldn't stop someone saving your life just because they wore your least favourite colour gloves or something would you?
However if you want something constructive - the news zone could do with a reinstatement and just cover all Sega related news, they do still exist (hell I live just up the road from their London offices.) Also any budding comic people who want to do NON-Sonic one off strips on other Sega characters provided they do everything themself and do not expect it to DEFINITELY get in, should be allowed a shot, at best you'll find yourself landed with some extra strip that should be accepted well, at worst you have some stuff you won't print cos it sucks and you just let them put their hardwork elsewhere, if people know the "risks" (for lack of a better word) before doing, they won't be so crestfallen, and you may find some good artists in the interim who can aid the comics movement and pace.
|
|
|
Post by cellsai on Jan 16, 2013 12:53:34 GMT
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if it's being done for free, only DIRE things need improving on, you wouldn't stop someone saving your life just because they wore your least favourite colour gloves or something would you? Hey, don't get me wrong. I love this thing, but if someone asks for suggestions on perceived shortcomings I'll gladly put forward suggestions regardless if it's free or not. It's not like they have to actually act on anything said in here.
|
|
|
Post by L. T. Dangerous on Jan 16, 2013 15:06:57 GMT
If only the dire things are improved, I think the concern is that we'll end up with lots of little problems.
STCO is absolutely fantastic when it gets it right. We want it to be that good all the time. I don't (contrary to popular belief) like lambasting things that are poor quality, I'd much rather spend my time praising things that are excellent. But as a writer myself I would always rather take that criticism- if I'm big, sloppy dog turds then I want to know where I'm going wrong so I can improve and be big, shiny not turds (that metaphor got away from me).
The comic itself (ignoring, briefly, the strips) just needs a few organisational tweaks and what have you. I'm really glad that after ten years-plus online the comic is finally embracing what the O in STCO stands for. Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr may be a small start but they're a massive step in the right direction. I'd be interested to see what else Stiv and Mike will do in this area.
|
|