Tom
Ex-Hume
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Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Feb 27, 2011 21:46:54 GMT
For that matter, we've only got Robotnik's word for it that the 'organic battery' concept works at all -- maybe this was just pseudoscience which he passed off as fact because it suited his cruel intentions. A bit Josef Mengele. Whatever that unpleasant thing is crawling around inside your head, don't let it anywhere near me. |
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 27, 2011 22:53:43 GMT
YIKES! I...I didn't realise this comic was a sensitive subject. :/ If I knew I was going to be analysed to frick, I would've been more serious and less flippant... Well, here goes: Bit confused by this. Are you saying that the above mentioned story lacked action? I think the Sonic CD story would be one of mine. Not sure this should cause me shame even if what you say is true. As I recall, the Sonic CD story went thus: Metal planet appears, Sonic goes there, Metalliz appears. This leads up to the final part, where Sonic has a conversation with Little Sonic, shrinks himself, does a spin attack. Sonic wins. The End. And you, serious. I didn't see it that way. As far as us kids knew, badniks were powered by little animals. That was the entire point of the badnik and Sonic's main attack and adventure. Unless we're point-blank told this one has no battery, for whatever reason, we're going to assume that. Due to the roller's design, it just looked like it was hiding his buddy in his compartment, but not in a space where an animal-battery would be. Really? He's Super Sonic! While in the game there was no indication he was a homicidal maniac, in the magazine it was decided his he would be this. The character had been established as this, and then amplified each time he appeared, until it took slowing time inside an asteroid to just temporarily stop him from destroying the entire world. I don't see the connection. Charmy Bee did something according to character, Super Sonic was changed to a polar opposite. I could reel off other examples - a slow, panicy Sonic; an understanding and shy Robotnik; a polite and logical Bart Simpson - and they would be equally as disappointing, for the same reason: They not only flip the character upside down, but they lower down their strongest attributes. Just sayin'. "As an adult, the nostalgia and seeing what happened was cool, but I guess generally I wouldn't do it all again. It was a great kids' comic, but the quality took a sharp dip. I assume the writers ran out of material and stuck with one new story each issue, which itself was outside of the Sonic environment." This is so far off the mark. It almost sounds like you have opinions that are based of pure guesswork. Yes because I'm supposed to know exactly what's going on somewhere else in the world 12 years ago. I said 'assume', because that was the impression given. I didn't claim to know the real reasons for these 'un-sonic' stories. The idea that the writers had run out of ideas is patently laughable... I don't think so. Several stories were being created every two weeks over many years, it would be understandable if material suddenly ran dry. I think this was alluded to with how Sonic, around the Shanazar time at least, solved every situation with a whirlwind. And how Tekno (and others) solved a lot of things by reading her scanner, then "reversing the polarity" of the machine/object. |
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Feb 27, 2011 23:41:58 GMT
As I recall, the Sonic CD story went thus: Metal planet appears, Sonic goes there, Metalliz appears. This leads up to the final part, where Sonic has a conversation with Little Sonic, shrinks himself, does a spin attack. Sonic wins. The End. And? Sonic and Metal Sonic faced off several times over the space of the story, there was plenty of action - in the game, you just race, and Metal just self-destructs. There was quite clearly nowhere else for an organic battery to be held - the roller badnik is basically a big compartment with legs. A compartment we saw was empty. Besides, we saw badniks looking for organic batteries before, so the idea that they could actually operate without them was hardly unprecedented. When I was a kid, I assumed that having an animal powering them just made them stronger and more resilient. So because he'd been established as a psychopath, that's all he could ever be? I thought the amnesiac pacifist storyline was better than just having him out there causing random destruction that the Freedom Fighters just happen to ignore, or just plain disappearing with no explanation? So, not a fan of Kintobor either then, eh? Your opinion is your opinion, but I think you're picking holes where there are none, for the most part. |
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Post by L. T. Dangerous on Feb 28, 2011 0:51:16 GMT
Yes because I'm supposed to know exactly what's going on somewhere else in the world 12 years ago. I said 'assume', because that was the impression given. I didn't claim to know the real reasons for these 'un-sonic' stories. To be totally fair, the reason STC went with reprinting stories and ended up having only one new story per issue is fairly well-documented by now and doesn't have anything to do with Lew or Nigel running out of ideas (which, personally, I don't believe to be close to the case and could easily envision STC still going today under their writing leadership, as I think most of us could). |
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 28, 2011 1:18:30 GMT
And? Sonic and Metal Sonic faced off several times over the space of the story, there was plenty of action - in the game, you just race, and Metal just self-destructs. As I recall, there wasn't much. First couple of parts was build-up, a recreation of the game's intro, then in the rest there was a fight, and then in the final chapter there was a couple of panes. It was mostly talking and Sonic running. What happened specifically in the game is pretty irrelevant. The roller badnik's large. Being picky, an animal could fit inside its top-half shell. There is no indication how much space the 'compartment' takes in the top half. Kintobor is Kintobor. But no, I don't think I'd be a fan if a shy Kintobor was cast as the villain. Hey, even when he was for one story, he wasn't the nice and understanding Kintobor personality, was he? You seem too intent on 'beating' me on the internet rather than getting what I'm saying. Super Sonic was instantly changed over(fort)night to a complete opposite. That's pretty shocking writing if you want to be honest. At the very least have some sort of build and solid reasoning for it. To be totally fair, the reason STC went with reprinting stories and ended up having only one new story per issue is fairly well-documented by now It's fairly well-documented by now to regulars of this website and any other STC fanatics who care about or encountered the 'inside story'. That's to be totally fair. |
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Post by The KKM on Feb 28, 2011 10:40:12 GMT
I think the thing is more that you shouldn't just head into a comic's forum and bash it's writers, I says. Until you had found something regarding whether the writers were out of ideas or not, just declaring them like that is quite unfair.
As for your points, I honestly just think it's a question of taste; as much as you liked it as a kid, StC isn't quite a comic for what you like.
EDIT: Also, in case you didn't realize it, the reason people may be getting a little flippant at you may be due to the fact you're insulting the writers of the comic et al, with the main writer of the comic (Nigel Kitching) being here to read it all. It's a bit... unconfortable.
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Feb 28, 2011 11:31:31 GMT
But that's Nigel's choice isn't it? If he only wanted to read positive comments about his work he'd have unplugged the internet a long time ago. I think if you can't speak freely about your feelings regarding STC then there's not much point in there being a message board here. The disagreement makes the conversation more interesting anyway.
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 28, 2011 12:18:31 GMT
I think the thing is more that you shouldn't just head into a comic's forum and bash it's writers, I says. Until you had found something regarding whether the writers were out of ideas or not, just declaring them like that is quite unfair. EDIT: Also, in case you didn't realize it, the reason people may be getting a little flippant at you may be due to the fact you're insulting the writers of the comic et al, with the main writer of the comic (Nigel Kitching) being here to read it all. It's a bit... unconfortable. ...Bashing? Insulting?... Then why are they here? You're telling me they saw or created this site, and joined so they could wallow in praise from over a decade in the past? I should note that the internet has taught us that creators taking part in forums usually leads to embarrassment. Who was that guy who went ape whenever someone had criticism? The guy who created the Elite game? But that's Nigel's choice isn't it? If he only wanted to read positive comments about his work he'd have unplugged the internet a long time ago. I think if you can't speak freely about your feelings regarding STC then there's not much point in there being a message board here. The disagreement makes the conversation more interesting anyway. Aye, if I get a load of fanboys saying "you have an opinion/view, I respect that, and now I've made it look like I'm logical and unbiased, I'd like to say: WRONG because STC was AWESOME" and even writers themselves coming in saying "you don't know what [censored] went down, man! You're making it up!", over a friggin' bulletpoint list in an 8-page topic about negative aspects (which, amazingly, I have to point out was not Serious Business), I'll just allow myself to be driven away and put up a sign: Abandon hope all ye who enter here. Because there's no conversation to be had with rude fanboys. I don't have a problem with a constructive conversation, as long as it doesn't turn into essay-post arguments, but the attitude seems pretty off here. It's like "love STC or die". And who said I didn't or don't love STC?... |
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Feb 28, 2011 12:58:37 GMT
And who said I didn't or don't love STC?... Well, the onus is on you to demonstrate otherwise... |
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Post by ShayMay on Feb 28, 2011 13:05:09 GMT
None of us have been rude or insulting towards you. We have simply disagreed.
STC had some bad moments. Heck, STC had some terrible moments - a lot of terrible moments, in fact. But the fact is, you've identified a number of points that many disagree with (as well as one or two based on conjecture), and so we have voiced our disagreement - in quite a civil manner, I might add. I fail to see how that makes us "rude fanboys".
Incidentally, it wasn't Nigel or any of the original staff who created STC-O - it was Tom and a couple of others, I believe (feel free to correct me on that), as an online continuation.
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Feb 28, 2011 13:42:49 GMT
You seem too intent on 'beating' me on the internet rather than getting what I'm saying. You seem very confrontational, for some reason. Honestly, I couldn't give a damn about 'beating' you - you have your opinion, I have mine. They differ. I was just saying what I thought about the points you raised. My reasoning for liking it was just as solid as yours for not liking it. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't make that not the case. |
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Post by madhair60 on Feb 28, 2011 14:16:21 GMT
None of us have been rude or insulting towards you. We have simply disagreed. Well... there have been frequent patronising comments, and passive-aggressive silliness. I feel a little saddened that ozzyoscy has already fostered a negative opinion of the place, but it's all par for the course really. |
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 28, 2011 14:53:13 GMT
And who said I didn't or don't love STC?... Well, the onus is on you to demonstrate otherwise... ? I now have to prove myself that I am 'one of you', eh? That I like something? What on Earth? Let me guess: I have to repeat some sacred oath, reel off some stories I quite liked, then sacrifice a hedgehog, so I can then have an opinion that isn't "I like...". What planet are you on? You are clearly ridiculous, and I have now decided to ignore any future posts you make, unless you make a very good point. My mind is blown by the stupidity of that one sentence. Is that sentence 'STCO' in a nutshell? None of us have been rude or insulting towards you. We have simply disagreed...the fact is, you've identified a number of points that many disagree with (as well as one or two based on conjecture), and so we have voiced our disagreement - in quite a civil manner, I might add. I fail to see how that makes us "rude fanboys". See the post above mine. I haven't really received a civil response, 'patronising passive-aggressiveness' is spot on. Can't resist making comments because someone thinks or sees things differently. This is even more embarrasing when one of those involved in this passive-aggressiveness on the internet is an adult (probably nearing or in his 40s at least) and one of the writers himself. Pretend, or even believe, all you want that the community has kindly gathered to this non-positive post and adequately disputed relevant points with respect, due to seeing where I'm coming from. I think cutting out the "you seem angry"/"you seem confrontational" inciting tactics and the "you're guessing"/"you're making it up" style comments would be a good start, as they are completely baseless and pointless comments to make unless the intention is to belittle someone. It is clear that my words have absolutely no respect here due to them not being of the "I love..." yes man nature, but at least try not to make that obvious. Like I said, all this for a quick post on a 7/8-page thread on the internet. God help us all. Honestly, I couldn't give a damn about 'beating' you - you have your opinion, I have mine. They differ. I was just saying what I thought about the points you raised. At the expense of reading what I said, because you were too caught up in giving me your 'opinion', which ended up not really being relevant to what you quoted. Like this: |
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Tom
Ex-Hume
Hume-who-used-to-think-he-was-in-charge
Posts: 3,786
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Post by Tom on Feb 28, 2011 15:07:16 GMT
WTF? I now have to prove myself that I am 'one of you', eh? That I like something? What on Earth? Let me guess: I have to repeat some sacred oath, reel off some stories I quite liked, then sacrifice a hedgehog, so I can then have an opinion that isn't "I like...". What planet are you on? You are clearly ridiculous, and I have now decided to ignore any future posts you make, unless you make a very good point. My mind is blown by the stupidity of that one sentence. Is that sentence 'STCO' in a nutshell? Not remotely. It doesn't really matter one way or another what your feelings about STC are. However, you have indicated that you "love" STC, and yet all you've written so far are rants about what is wrong with it. This isn't perfectly consistent; it's not contradictory, but it's not convincing either. You're not obliged to do or say anything here (as far as I'm concerned - moderators have their own opinions, ones I usually disagree with), but if you want us to understand that you have a positive overall view of STC, it might be worth picking out at least one positive attribute of it... |
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Post by Arch_one_zero_one on Feb 28, 2011 15:16:41 GMT
At the expense of reading what I said, because you were too caught up in giving me your 'opinion', which ended up not really being relevant to what you quoted. Yeah, fair enough, I misread part of your post. I actually realised that and edited it out, but then you'd already replied, so I put it back. I'm human, I do make mistakes every once in a while. |
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 28, 2011 15:33:58 GMT
WTF? I now have to prove myself that I am 'one of you', eh? That I like something? What on Earth? Let me guess: I have to repeat some sacred oath, reel off some stories I quite liked, then sacrifice a hedgehog, so I can then have an opinion that isn't "I like...". What planet are you on? You are clearly ridiculous, and I have now decided to ignore any future posts you make, unless you make a very good point. My mind is blown by the stupidity of that one sentence. Is that sentence 'STCO' in a nutshell? Not remotely. It doesn't really matter one way or another what your feelings about STC are. However, you have indicated that you "love" STC, and yet all you've written so far are rants about what is wrong with it. This isn't perfectly consistent; it's not contradictory, but it's not convincing either. You're not obliged to do or say anything here (as far as I'm concerned - moderators have their own opinions, ones I usually disagree with), but if you want us to understand that you have a positive overall view of STC, it might be worth picking out at least one positive attribute of it... Or alternatively you could realise it's entirely irrelevant as it is still an opinion. You are now saying to dislike something about something, one must like it. That logic means anyone who hates Star Wars: Episode I must like Star Wars films, and anyone who thinks Rudebox by Robbie Williams was rubbish must be a Robbie fan. Then you will see that logic is incorrect. You could also come to the conclusion that if I have read about 160 issues of it so far, I must like it. Then you would whirr the cogs in your brain and think "y'know, it would be really ridiculous, regardless of knowing all this, if I suggested someone prove their loyalty to STC to also prove that they are allowed to have an opinion". C'mon. Yeah, fair enough, I misread part of your post. I actually realised that and edited it out, but then you'd already replied, so I put it back. I'm human, I do make mistakes every once in a while. See? If I can do this in a civil, or at least non-belittling, manner, so can everyone else. Tell me, where in that sentence did I say something like "calm down" or "you're making it up"? Indeed: nowhere. |
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Post by Retro on Feb 28, 2011 16:05:05 GMT
This is quickly moving out of discussion and into trivial details of posts and meanings. As such, a few mods have been watching and contemplating stepping in. I feel it's best to do so now.
Ozzyoscy, after reading through this neutrally after coming back onto the forum, it is from your posts that any problems here are stemming. There is nothing wrong about posting opinion, as you see, even Nigel responded to comments on his own stories politely, be they positive or negative. But please make a better effort to remain polite and concise. Confrontational posts are the anathema of forum discussion.
Others involved too, to respond by trying to point out things yourselves only aggravates things. If something annoys you about the way someone is talking, best to not post at all guys. Check witha mod. We'll check it out.
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Post by Nigel Kitching on Feb 28, 2011 18:54:27 GMT
Hi ozzyoscy
This is getting a bit out of hand. But I must say that when I read your posts I thought you did come across as being quite angry.
No point me discussing the issues raised now unfortunately as this has become a bit too emotional and I’ll only end up wanting to defend myself against the various charges aimed at me – passive aggressive, inciting behaviour, belittling and such.
I would actually have been quite interested in a discussion about the merits of the pacifist Super Sonic – but I guess we’re past that now.
I’ve never had a problem with people criticising my work. I remember fondly Ed patiently pulling my stories apart and awarding me a grade. This was a light hearted exchange but the points Ed and I made were sincere and believe me Ed used to find plenty of faults in my work to point out to me.
I also remember somebody bluntly pointing out that I ripped off a gag in Decap Attack from Black Adder. I didn’t argue about that because the person in question was quite right and it was a fair cop.
So I’d really hate it if anyone felt awkward about having a go at me regarding some of my work. I don’t mind people being blunt about it. I’d rather it was friendly if possible. However if you use phrases like “Be ashamed” and “Arabic desert nonsense” and use language which might be considered a little sarcastic then I’m likely to respond in a similarly robust fashion. But isn’t that okay? Can’t we have freewheeling discussions without getting offended with each other?
And this is even more embarrassing because I’m actually 51 years old and not nearing my 40s (I wish).
So that’s how I see it and I hope this post isn’t just going to make things worse.
Nigel
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Post by Baron Canier on Feb 28, 2011 19:05:57 GMT
I now have to prove myself that I am 'one of you', eh? That I like something? What on Earth? Let me guess: I have to repeat some sacred oath, reel off some stories I quite liked, then sacrifice a hedgehog, so I can then have an opinion that isn't "I like...". What planet are you on? You are clearly ridiculous, and I have now decided to ignore any future posts you make, unless you make a very good point. My mind is blown by the stupidity of that one sentence. I like this guy. Is that sentence 'STCO' in a nutshell? Nah. Though we do seem to suffer from poor communication skills from time to time. |
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Post by Nam on Feb 28, 2011 19:21:19 GMT
Didn't Super Sonic get amnesia that led to him being pacifist firstly for not knowing what he was and taking to the kindness of the strangers who looked after him, then once he met up with Ebony, learning just how evi he was disturbed him, and he didn't want to tap into it. Essentially, Super Sonic was a split of Sonic's personality, and as such, he was essentially good, but like Kintobor before him, he was overwhelmed with the evil Chaos powers, and went bat[censored] insane and evil whenever he tapped into him, hence while he was with Ebony, he had no desire to use the power, because he didn't want to lose himself.
That was my take anyway.
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Post by Nigel Kitching on Feb 28, 2011 19:39:31 GMT
Didn't Super Sonic get amnesia that led to him being pacifist firstly for not knowing what he was and taking to the kindness of the strangers who looked after him, then once he met up with Ebony, learning just how evi he was disturbed him, and he didn't want to tap into it. Essentially, Super Sonic was a split of Sonic's personality, and as such, he was essentially good, but like Kintobor before him, he was overwhelmed with the evil Chaos powers, and went bat[censored] insane and evil whenever he tapped into him, hence while he was with Ebony, he had no desire to use the power, because he didn't want to lose himself. That was my take anyway. The thing that interested me (or partly anyway) was that he became an 'unexploded bomb'. At any time he could turn evil and destroy everything. I was interested in how this was dealt with by Ebony and was it right that such a dangerous character should be protected just because he was now 'good'. I need to go back a read some of this stuff to see if the subtlety I think is there actually is. |
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Post by ozzyoscy on Feb 28, 2011 19:39:38 GMT
I don’t mind people being blunt about it. I’d rather it was friendly if possible. However if you use phrases like “Be ashamed” and “Arabic desert nonsense” and use language which might be considered a little sarcastic then I’m likely to respond in a similarly robust fashion. But isn’t that okay? Can’t we have freewheeling discussions without getting offended with each other? Well my original post was light-hearted, which is why I kept saying earlier about how it was just a post in a thread on the internet. I didn't know if any originals were here and whom, nor who was invovled in those stories. I do, however, feel it was Arabic desert nonsense. There's a story based in the Sandopolis Zone, then there's Arabic desert nonsense spread over months. But, as a human being, fan and reader, that is my opinion. Saying my opinion was guesswork after telling me how I feel wasn't going to end well, especially when I was still countering points without WRITING IN CAPS AND SWEARING LIKE A MOTHER[censored]ER and I had said I was assuming material was running out, which I think was a very fair assumption. Ozzyoscy, after reading through this neutrally after coming back onto the forum, it is from your posts that any problems here are stemming...please make a better effort to remain polite and concise. Confrontational posts are the anathema of forum discussion. Alas, to this I can only say "no [censored], Sherlock - tell it to them" and raise an e-middle finger. By nature, I give the respect I receive. If anyone wants be a big boy on an internet forum, I too will unsheath my e-penis and engage in a literary sword fight. Your post is saying I am a confrontational dick and the only reason there is an argument on this page is because people are replying, which thus infuriates me further (for I am a confrontational dick), leading to more mean posts. Dick move. |
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Post by Baron Canier on Feb 28, 2011 19:52:36 GMT
Generally, when someone accuses you of being violent the best thing to say is not "I'll kill you".
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Post by Nam on Feb 28, 2011 20:08:21 GMT
Maybe both sides need to stop this fighting now. This is a classic example of this forum taking a small point, and blowing it into massive proportion (pot, kettle, black, I know, I know ¬¬). Ozzy, you're being a bit overly defensive, and whether you intend it or not you're coming across with a "If I'm going down, I'm taking you all with me" fighting attitude But many others are just as bad. Tom's logic and blatent fanboyism ran around unchecked, to the point where he was attacking the Ozzy, who is new, and maybe doesn't have all the details. Despite claims that the story of what happened with STC has been around for ages, not everyone knows it I bet even some of our regular forumers don't know it fully, so lets stop assuming it should be known by all perhaps? Likewise the mods, all of them have been a bit one sided here, even in trying to keep balance. Yes, this thread was bumped from way too long in the past, but it looks like an honest mistake, and there's an interesting discussion here. And yes, maybe Ozzy's opinions are against the norm, and perhaps he is striving a bit too hard to defend the, but many in this thread are striving a bit too hard to attack them. Even the mods have jumped on him, threatening Ozzy with rules, and assuming he should know who's who, and what's what. All sides are to blame here. Ozzy, you're being too confrontational, and should maybe stop being so vehemently defensive of your opinions. Mods, perhaps you should give some leeway, and allow the new guy five minutes to explain himself. Everyone else, maybe you should stop assuming that everyone agrees with popular concensus, and just allow this one to have an opinion you don't agree with, rather than declaring that because he disliked a lot of stuff he's "no true fan", and should be quiet. tl;dr everyone here's being a dick, and we're all arguing pointless seantics and meta-arguing over who's arguing over what argument.
Didn't Super Sonic get amnesia that led to him being pacifist firstly for not knowing what he was and taking to the kindness of the strangers who looked after him, then once he met up with Ebony, learning just how evi he was disturbed him, and he didn't want to tap into it. Essentially, Super Sonic was a split of Sonic's personality, and as such, he was essentially good, but like Kintobor before him, he was overwhelmed with the evil Chaos powers, and went bat[censored] insane and evil whenever he tapped into him, hence while he was with Ebony, he had no desire to use the power, because he didn't want to lose himself. That was my take anyway. The thing that interested me (or partly anyway) was that he became an 'unexploded bomb'. At any time he could turn evil and destroy everything. I was interested in how this was dealt with by Ebony and was it right that such a dangerous character should be protected just because he was now 'good'. I need to go back a read some of this stuff to see if the subtlety I think is there actually is. That is interesting, but then I must ask, why was he never brought up again after his fight with Biohazard? Did you forget him, or was there too many characters running around to pursue this plot thread? Would you have done more Super Sonic and Ebony stories if you'd had the space? |
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RS
Big Time Boomer
Allo.
Posts: 248
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Post by RS on Feb 28, 2011 20:25:19 GMT
Ozzy really isn't very good at this "antagonistic intelligence" lark. Come back when you've hosted an infamous radio show bashing everyone, then we'll talk.
Anyway, I did love the good Super Sonic storyline for the reason Nigel described. I always got the feeling, to use a modern analogy, that if you were to have a friendly pint with him he might just smash the drink over your head at any second. It's kind of like what Heroes tried to do with Sylar, but failed at it, 'cause, well, it's Heroes.
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