Doctor Who Thread

[Alex]

Personally Tennant = Eccleston to me. I love how both have done the Doctor.

Though Tennant > Eccleston for not being a whiny [censored] about it and running away.

[Ed]

? When has Eccleston whined? He signed up for a season and did a season.

I'm with Mobiusman. Tennant is slightly irritating. But in fairness, he's had much weaker material to work with.

[Alex]

ed2 said:

? When has Eccleston whined? He signed up for a season and did a season.

I'm with Mobiusman. Tennant is slightly irritating. But in fairness, he's had much weaker material to work with.

"I don't want to be typecast as a time travelling doctor in a police box."

[Smithy]

ed2 said:

Tennant is slightly irritating. But in fairness, he's had much weaker material to work with.

I concur, I prefer Eccleston, but I'd like to see what Tennant could do with the same strength and freshness of scripts that you saw in the first season.

Though of course when Tennant goes and I'm chosen as the next regeneration I'll own them both...

[Ed]

doctoroak said:

ed2 said:

? When has Eccleston whined? He signed up for a season and did a season.

I'm with Mobiusman. Tennant is slightly irritating. But in fairness, he's had much weaker material to work with.

"I don't want to be typecast as a time travelling doctor in a police box."

I haven't heard that quote. The only typecasting accusation I heard was the one the BBC was forced to retract because they bungled the surprise ending of the season and got caught with their pants down. Actors move from job to job. Aside from American television, where they lock their stars into 5-year contracts as a matter of course from the get go, most television actors change jobs fairly quickly -- especially after spending eight months on a risky venture that may have tanked. I don't really see why anyone should hold it against an actor that he left to do different things after doing a terrific job.

[Xavious]

mobiusman2 said:

t3hchaosx3 said:

Eccleston > Tennant > Jesus

Is how I see it.

Yet another Doctor Who post that's needed fixing.

THANK YOU!

Pretty much everyone seems to be a total Tennant fan.

I personally prefer Eccleston for a few reasons.

- He generally seems to care and is kind without seeming to totally love himself. I mean look at Tennant's Doctor in "New Earth". Rose gets lost and he doesn't exactly jump in and try too look for her. In fact he's totally casual about it!
- He shows fear and similar emotions really well. In "Dalek" I can totally feel his fear at the propect of a Dalek running about exterminating everyone.
- He gay kisses Captain Jack. An actor (whom is straight?) that can do something like that so beautifully and meaningfully desevers great respect in my opinion especially if it isn't their thing.
- He gives up his current life to save Rose. Sure he can regenerate but the whole feel of the situation was very tense and sad.
- For some unfathomable reason I find Eccleston very attractive. Tennant... not so much.

Don't get me wrong. Tennant makes a great Doctor, but I just prefer Eccleston.

And what's this about weak storylines? I quite like the series 2 storylines so far.

Question: I saw a Doctor Who DVD in Woolworths recently with "The Christmas Invasion" and "New Earth" on it. Is "The Christmas Invasion" meant to part of series 2 or not? I mean I read that there were 13 episodes in series 2 like series 1 so is "The Christmas Invasion" meant to be the first episode, an extra episode, or just a bridge between series 1 and 2?

[Ed]

I'm not sure Eccleston's kiss with Jack is really anything to do with anything. 1) He was paid to. 2) Lots of straight actors take on gay roles. 3) Lots of gay actors take on straight roles. One brief kiss in that context hardly makes a difference here or there.

What makes the difference between Eccleston and Tennant is that Eccleston had a character arc. He was damaged and alone, he found a companion, then another, he overcame his grief, overcame his urge for vengeance, dined with his enemies, he loved and lived and died and mourned and ate chips. Tennant has a series of flings and trices with a few monsters here and there. Some of the stories have had more about them than others, but there's no connective tissue that drives the character forward. Same with Rose. She's gone from shopgirl to superhero and now she's just sort of hanging in the ether.

I think the Christmas special was filmed with S2. It's not a part of S2, but for all intents and purposes, it's part of the same run.

[Alex]

There is an arguable character arc in that it's about the Doctor and Rose and them being in a relationship (For example, see last episode's talk about Rose living in with the TARDISless Doctor).

Certainly, it isn't as strong as last season's arc but it's there. We probably wont really see it as a full working arc until the climax of the series - as right now it appears rather aimless - but it's still there.

[Ed]

I don't buy it's an arc because I'd argue that they were in a relationship from the very beginning of Season 2 -- since their picnic on "New Earth". This season has had, so far, a refrain about their relationship with the vague possibility of a reshuffling of the decks for next year.

[Alex]

Well it's been building up from there really:

You start off with New Earth, they're still dancing around the idea a bit, but basically 'starting' their relationship together - with Cassandra basically showing what Rose meant to the Doctor in shorthand (He gets all ragey about it again in The Wire ep) and what Rose sees in the Doctor (And to be more specific, Tennant's Doctor);

Then you have the school ep - which focuses on the Doctor's past relationships and why they don't work - basically why Rose and the Doctor will ultimately fail as a couple. It also introduces Mickey into the formula to essentially do the same thing for Rose and her relationships now.

In the Girl in the Fireplace, we see Rose taking off with Mickey trying to make him more like the Doctor and the Doctor going off with Madame De Pompadour (Who isn't entirely unlike Rose in some aspects) as basically a 'seperation' for the Doc and Rose - a middling point sort of.

After that, The Doctor and Rose basically get back together, Mickey realises that he really is just 'the tin dog' and leaves them to their relationship - ending the triangle. And immediately after that, Rose and the Doctor are off on a 'date' to see Elvis - showing that their relationship is going stronger than ever.

And of course we have last week's episode with Rose and the whole moving in thing, pretty much a 'next step' in a relationship.

Everything so far has pretty much had this relationship and it's growth etc as a central basis - if that doesn't make an arc, what does? And of course there is Who Confidential's line about who will end up paying the price for the Doctor and Rose having "too much fun?".

Like I said, hardly as strong as last season's bordering emofest but it's still there.

[Ed]

You've suggested a shape to proceedings that I don't think is there -- sure, there's a refrain about their relationship, but an arc...? In episode 1, they start out on another 'date' (their word). Episodes 3 and 4 extrapolate the theme for an episode, but neither have any lasting consequences. If you mixed the episodes up, the character arcs would be basically the same.

Rose's jealousy of Mickey was dropped between episodes. Rose's grief at the loss of Mickey was dropped between episodes. The Doctor's romance with Madame Du Pompadour has not had any impact on subsequent episode. Rose's encounter with SJS has not had any apparent impact on subsequent episodes. I wouldn't expect episode 10 to have much about the Doctor facing down the barrel of a mortgage. Only Mickey had any kind of character arc. The Doctor and Rose reset themselves to zero at the top of each hour. Where's the growth?

That's okay for a purely plot-led show, but certainly inferior to the wealth of character material Eccleston had to work with. (Which is saying nothing about other big differences: the greater complexity of villains like Blon and the Dalek; the more pronounced supporting character changes of Jack and Mickey as well as Rose; or Tennant's making his empathy into a catchphrase with this "I'm so sorry" business).

[Baron Canier]

ed2 said:

or Tennant's making his empathy into a catchphrase with this "I'm so sorry" business).

I've noticed that. He's starting to say it at every avaliable oppurtunity, even when its not actually his fault.

[Pitt]

Personally, I don't much like the Doctor and Rose's whole relationship. This aspect of the show has damaged the image of the older episodes in which the Doctor was much more enigmatic. Kissing everyone just doesn't really do much justice for the Doctor's character, in my opinion.

Ah well. These are the modern expectations I suppose.

[Dave]

You know what annoys me.

Everytime Rose is in trouble or they're pretty much appear to be screwed, she gets her phone out.

She even gave it to Mickey at the end of The Age of Steel, and got a replacement somewhere in the time she went home, and went to the year... whatever it was, when the coronation was happening. Because in The Impossible Planet, she has another phone.

I know it's nitpicky, but still.

[Samface]

I reckon the Doctor's on the same contract as my sister, where she gets a new phone every year. He just uses the TARDIS to zip about a bit and can pick up 20 spares in an hour or so.

[Pitt]

That was brilliant! The body of the Beast was a great effect.

Can't say I'm too excited about the next episode though. It looks like the sort of episode that doesn't actually include the Doctor or Rose very much.

[LJRG]

i enjoyed that episode soo I wonder how much religion is going to be in this series?

[Xavious]

So what did people think about this weeks episode then?

I think that it was the most thrilling yet.

SPOILER: Click to show

I was right the Doctor did diss the Devil, at least as he was working out where it's intelligence went. The archeologist's betrayal was a bit predictable in my view but it worked so I won't complain. And Devil beast! Whoa! It didn't exactly shock me but it was a beautifully put together piece of CG.

Also anyone notice another "torchwood" reference?
I wonder what it will turn out to mean?

[homsar]

What a amazing conclusion to the two parter. I have to say that was better then the Cybermen story. I like the fact that they made it vague as to what the beast really was. And I was nearly crying when The Doctor was reunited with Rose. It looks like next weeks episode has Peter Kay in it, brilliant ;D

[Pitt]

Also anyone notice another "torchwood" reference?
I wonder what it will turn out to mean?

I'm in the process of puzzling that out. It seems to be this series 'Bad Wolf'.

[Alex]

Great conclusion, definitely the best two parter so far.

Next week's looks pretty cool - it has Peter Kay in it! And the guy from Hustle! And Jackie!

As for Torchwood - unless the finale of the season is a direct setup to Torchwood itself, I feel it's actually more likely to simply be a constant nod to the fans about the series. Though you'd think they'd have cottoned on to the fact that it's been following them around like a bad smell (or Bad Wolf... *cough) - especially considering the whole Bad Wolf experience.

[dazzy05]

Well, what an excellent episode tonight, it was fast paced, with the Ood chasing them down, but kind of slowed down when The Doctor was going down the pit. The best bit must be when The Doctor saw the creature. The Devil, whatever it was, bloody hell, what great special effects, it was [censored] amazing, hats off to the Doctor Who Team. Best episode of the series in my view. The overall story was very well planned too.

Excuse the one word swearing, I have never seen special effects as brilliant as that.

[Mecha HMS]

What a great Episode today

Loved the whole being chased by the Ood thing the loss of the Soldier I forget his name...but Im glad he got to die Naturally instead of death by Ood

I knew Toby was still a traitor gotta love the bit where the Ood lets him escape.

The Doctor jumping from the cable was great looooooooooong drop by the sounds of things.

The beast (Devil) was stunning my mouth was open in amazement.

The Doctor having to choose between Killing the Beast which meant killing Rose or letting it live...in the end though he managed to do both Kill the beast and save Rose and the others

Loved the bit where Rose shot the Window and undid Toby's seatbelt forcing him into the vaccum of Space and towards the black hole.

And the doctor found the Tardis again and saved the lady and I can't remember her name either.

*What I want to know is how the Tardis ended up in the Pit when the pit was closed?*

[Alex]

supersonic said:

Loved the bit where Rose shot the Window and undid Toby's seatbelt forcing him into the vaccum of Space and towards the black hole.

That's my major nitpick. If Rose had done that on a plane, yes that is what would have happened.

Doing that in space, however, should have had ALL their eyeballs popping out on their stalks ala Total Recall.

Also, those must be some DAMN STRONG seatbelts to not be torn right out of the seats.

[ashurathecomic]

doctoroak said:

supersonic said:

Loved the bit where Rose shot the Window and undid Toby's seatbelt forcing him into the vaccum of Space and towards the black hole.

That's my major nitpick. If Rose had done that on a plane, yes that is what would have happened.

Doing that in space, however, should have had ALL their eyeballs popping out on their stalks ala Total Recall.

Also, those must be some DAMN STRONG seatbelts to not be torn right out of the seats.

Not true. I said that to my dad, who gave me an impromptu physics lesson. They would have asphyxiated from lack of air, but that would have taken about 30 seconds. If everything was tied down securely enough (seatbelts, chair, faces), everything would have been fine, as the window closed quickly enough and (presumably) the air was pumped back into the room.

Dunno how true that is. Anyone willing to go try it out? I'm sure NASA will be thrilled.

--Ray