Doctor Who Thread

[Ed]

The BBC has done pretty well with a lot of its dramas, actually. Who is obviously more high profile because it's catering for a major primetime slot and naturally supports a large merchandising vehicle. But Casualty and Holby City are big ratings winners; Witless Silence and John Deed are pretty solid for them in terms of bums on seats. Spooks, Life on Mars, Hustle, Auf Wiedersehen, Pet and so on have had strong critical acclaim. Their co-productions with HBO such as Rome have a strong international base, as do their limited series: The Virgin Queen, Bleak House, The Gathering Storm, etc. Plus, they've managed to get a lot of the big names in UK drama to develop stuff for them: Howard Brenton, Jimmy McGovern, Paul Abbott (though not so much in the last couple of years), Chris Chibnall, Russell T Davies, Matthew Graham, Ashley Pharoah, Andrew Davies, etc.

[Alex]

I forgot about Hustle.

Damn.

And Life on Mars was such a sleeper hit, I may cry. :/ I really liked what I saw, even if I didn't see all of it thanks to having to work on Monday nights, but it seemed like it got so looked over. I was surprised that it got a second series, I thought they'd simply give in and replace it with some reality tv junk instead.

And Spooks sucked after about series 2. They ran that show into the ground...

Though, Who still trumps 'em all in terms of raw success. The BBC knows it's got a powerful weapon and by gum are they going to use it. I have found it a tad ironic though that they've paired it with Strictly Dance Fever two years in a row. Who was meant to herald the beginning of the end for such nonsense and the return of proper TV. It just left such heralding as an oxymoron instead, lol.

[Charles]

doctoroak said:

And Spooks sucked after about series 2.

"After" Season 2? Try "during".

[Ed]

Well, I’m not commenting on the innate quality of any of those shows, just that – for the BBC – they’re a success. Life on Mars got upward of 7 million people for its finale, Spooks averages 5-6 million, Who 6-8. They generally pull shares of 25%-40% and – importantly for the BBC – get critical praise as well, so they can claim they’re justifying the licence fee. Obviously, Who has the ability to continue indefinitely with a revolving door cast and crew in a way that, say, Life on Mars can’t. It’s more like Casualty than Life on Mars in this respect; and it’s unusually commercial because it’s a sci-fi series skewed towards kids. But nevertheless, serial drama is one of the BBC’s strongest suits at present.

[Alex]

Just before tonight's Who, a snippet from the Radio Times:

There's a hole in the fabric of reality, allowing the Doctor's old foes, the Cybermen, to return to Earth en masse. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Actually, this is a thrillingly exciting episode, the penultimate of the series and the first of a two-part finale that sees the Doctor (David Tennant) and Rose (Billie Piper) facing their greatest ever battle. The pair land on Earth for a visit to Rose's mum Jackie (Camille Coduri), who's eagerly anticipating the arrival of her dad. But, as Rose gently points out, he died some years ago. So who is the mysterious visitor? Well, he's a ghost and he has an awful lot of ghostly friends, who pop down to Earth for brief appearances, courtesy of the mysterious Torchwood Institute and its sharp boss (Tracy-Ann Oberman). But the ghosts aren't the friendly figures they at first seem - and also far from friendly are the contents of a mysterious, glowing sphere . . .

Pete Tyler does return.

Bring on Mickey the Idiot!

[Alex]

*Jaw Drops*

This weeks was awesome. Simply pure awesome.

But NEXT WEEK?!

Cybermen, the Daleks, Mickey, Pete and a big [censored]ing war.

Anyone else thinking that if Mickey survives he'll join the Doctor again next series?

[The Tikal who had no Toes]

Daleks, Cybermen, and Torchwood, oh my! Finally, the Torchwood build-up yields some results.
Seriously, that was brilliant. Torchwood's arrogance, the psychic paper buggering up for Rose, the assimilation of the Torchwood workers by the scary things in the lift, the big sphere, Jackie having an active role for once, Mickey randomly turning up... should be interesting to see what happens next week, apart from the whole Rose dying bit.
Also, I doubt Mickey will come back, even if he doesn't get killed, for the above reason.

[Alex]

Is it really a spoiler any more? Lol.

She DOES say it at the start of the episode.

Come to think of it, how does someone narrate their own death?

[The Tikal who had no Toes]

Edited. And it's a common narrational device, ever seen American Beauty?

[Kittie Rose]

Man, that was pretty good. I wasn't expecting the Daleks since the "It can exist out of time" reminded me so much of "THe Beast" I thougt it would be somethign to dowith that, or the obvious route, the Cyber Controller.

I hope it works out though, it does seem a bit fanboyish. 45 minutes isn't enough for the finale, they should extend it to an hour. I'd love to see the original Cybermen(redesigned of course) be instrumental in what happens.

[Xavious]

doctoroak said:

Come to think of it, how does someone narrate their own death?

Maybe she dies and becomes something more? i.e. Badwolf.

Either that or she comes back to life and realises she doesn't want to travel with the Doctor anymore because of how dangerous it is.

In a way I feel that this episode could have been called "Torchwood" like the 12th episode in Series 1, but obviously the army of ghosts is a more important plot point than finding out the meaning of why torchwood is hinted at all through the series.
So "Army Of Ghosts" fits best overall.

So the Cybermen used the hole the Daleks punched between dimensions to invade so they really have no knowledge of each other nor what each aims to do?
A hinted alliance between the Cybermen and the Daleks is interesting to say the least. But would the Daleks take that offer?
It would be interesting if one of the two decided to join up with the Doctor instead or just battle it out because they don't want to share.

And what is this "Genesis Device" the Daleks are transporting?
It's obvious that the Cybermen plan to invade our Earth, but what are the Daleks doing as their are so few of them?

Mickey's back yay! He definatly seems more confident than before which is a good thing.

Where is that Face Of Bode thing going to fit in? It will be in the last episode I suppose where it will reveal it's big secret...

It would be wonderful to see some kind of twist we aren't expecting.

Also could someone explain the psychic paper thing to me? I don't quite get what it does nor why it didn't work this time.

[dazzy05]

Wow to tonight's episode, Torchwood being revealed, and they are a erm company looking for alien life, and they seem to be doing pretty well. When they began seeing the ghosts, it was rather strange to see the ghosts not hurting anyone, plus the public didn't react at all like they were scared, of course, they did when it first happened. Then The Doctor saw the Spear, and it was pretty big and impressive. He said that something was in it, and the spear was unleashing fear to anyone who looked at it, or touched it. Torchwood said the Spear went through some kind of gateway between worlds or something, and then ended up in their company to be observed. When that woman got killed by the Cyberman, and had that ear piece, she was overwriting the system, to show the ghosts true form, and it couldn't be stopped. After that, the whole world showed the ghosts turning in to Cybermen, then the Spear began to open to reveal............Daleks!!! I'm just a bit confused how the Daleks survived and the Cybermen. A very good episode next week, probably the greatest of all time!

Just adding a bit more, here are the good things about tonight's:

+ Finally, Torchwood is revealed!
+ The Doctor trapping one of the ghosts!
+ Rose tryintg to use the wallet thing, didn't work.
+ Micky returning, acting all hard, and what a massive gun he has.
+ The Cybermen, come on, they scared me to death!
+ Daleks, they look more menacing!

[Charles]

Wow. That was a pretty cool episode - and while I thought partway through "maybe the Daleks are in the sphere", it was still pretty damn cool to see them emerge (and it was a slight twist that the Cybermen weren't related to it), and I didn't expect to see Mickey return like that. Also, the Doctor trying to pass off Jackie as Rose? Priceless.

Love the touch of Canary Wharf being Torchwood's HQ and the programs on telly about the ghosts ("Ecto-Shine!") and everyone being used to the ghosts, and the really nasty touch of the Cybermen breaking into people's homes.

That said, Torchwood don't live up to their hype. UNIT had its bad days, but at least they would've noticed in Cybermen had established a field HQ inside their own base. No mention of UNIT in the trailer or any updates on the UNIT website either, which is disappointing.

AND THE SODDING MUSIC IS STILL TOO MUCH. We can feel fear and sadness and all that without you telling us too.

Oh - and check the Tardisode for next ep. That's even more scary and intense than this week's ep.

willsheej said:

A hinted alliance between the Cybermen and the Daleks is interesting to say the least. But would the Daleks take that offer?

Yeah, but with full intention of killing the Cybermen once they'd got what they wanted.

[Ed]

Tedious.

Lots of bang, bang, boom, boom, not much discernable point. What made the Daleks great last season was that they a huge emotional foil for the Doctor, and that they spurred the Doctor to action (or the promise of action). This year, lots of crazy stuff happens and everyone runs around. Yawn.

The music was the worst it's been with the usual canned tunes cranked up full volume, and "story of my death" framing device was a huge misfire -- in action stories, build UP the tension. It might have worked with the narration returning at the end to bring the most powerful point to the fore (cf. Buffy Season 2's finale).

Some of the lines were good (Yvonne is delightful), the basic idea of Torchwood could have been interesting, but it's all so by the numbers it's laughable.

[Alex]

I don't get this attack against the music.

As someone who often watches shows back JUST for the music I think they've done an excellent job. It's not there to "command you to be sad" it's there to help convey the emotion. That's the entire point of a backing track. Would people rather we just had them running around in complete silence - that'd only make it seem boring and without music building up like that, how could anyone possibly consider men running around in silly suits or pepperpots on wheels intimidating.

The music does the job it's supposed to do, yet because Dead Ringers makes a joke about the volume of it (Which, um... I've never had a problem with, maybe everyone just needs to sort out their T.Vs - I can hear the dialogue fine) suddenly it's the horse of the day to be beaten with sticks.

Similarly with the whole of Season 2 really. Some people seem to be drawing some conclusion that there's some deeper profoundness in the first season as compared to the second. Yet they seem pretty much equal to me - and I only watched the entire first season again a fortnight ago.

I've thought as highly of this series as the last, loved Tennant as the Doctor, adored the score, thought the scripts have been 90% dead on the mark (The Wire was... mehish but with some good moments) and have considered it to be just as great TV as the last one.

I honestly don't get where the naysayers are coming from... :/

[Ed]

The music is very up and down. Sometimes it's great, but sometimes they just crank it on and it just... grates. Especially when they reuse the same tunes again and again. It's just an instinct. It feels OTT.

As for the S1 v S2... well, in S1 we saw the Doctor changing and dealing with vengeance, genocide, falling in love and becoming a different person; the evolution of Rose and Mickey and Captain Jack and Jackie; themes of redemption and loss and falling in love and all that. There was an emotional connection between the heroes and the Daleks, Blon, etc. The Bad Wolf mystery was tantalising.

This year, one episode has no real impact on the next (except for Mickey), the villains have no real connection to the heroes, there's little arc except for the Torchwood thing which is blandly mystery-free. The Satan, K-9 and Madame du Pompadour episodes gave some depth to the Doctor in isolation; the others didn't even have that. It's "a tale... full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[Mambo's Here! Look Busy!]

That episode was totally AWESOME! I guessed pretty soon on that there were going to be Daleks in the sphere but still, WARGH!! Cybermen VS Daleks! How cool (in a purely geeky sense!) will that be!! WOOOO!!

[Kittie Rose]

I kind of agree with the episodes not having impact. It doesn't feel as tightly knit as the first series.

At the same time, I find they've toned down the Cheese level, improved the CG, and for all intensive purposes, gotten an even better Doctor.

I think getting rid of Rose will do wonders for the series. She IS what made the first series to an extent but I think people overestimate her importance. It's time to take a risk and reinvent the series the way it should have been at the start of this season.

This episode really makes it feel like things are coming together though. I think there will be a lot more to the Daleks than BANG BANG especially since there's only a few of them. I'm pretty sure the Genesis device is an important part of Who lore. I don't get why they'd stop being an emotional foil.

The Time War was never really resolved, nothing like it. Until it is, the Daleks will keep coming back. I hope they don't ignore the whole Time War thing, though.

[The Tikal who had no Toes]

I actually think it's become cheesier since the regeneration - the last series was darker and this one had a bit too much Doctor arsing around in it, plus in the last series there was more of a focus on the Doctor's past, and more exploration of his thoughts. At least it's getting dark again though.
Edit: just seen the Tardisode for Doomsday. It's pretty nasty.

[Kittie Rose]

Ugh, I can't watch the tardisodes my connection is too slow. Is there a way of downloading them? Stream only is stupid.

[robbienekoda]

I'm about to watch the Tardisode.

The genesis thing: Cool name, looks vaguely like a Dalek but is covered up: COME ON, DAVROS!!!!

[Kittie Rose]

Why would Davros be a "device"? Except for a "plot device".

[Charles]

doctoroak said:

I don't get this attack against the music.

They use it too much. It's like they don't expect the audience to be able to understand the emotional point of a scene unless they're bombarding us with orchestras. Like, the scene where Jackie talks about her father coming to visit - did that really need music?

Would people rather we just had them running around in complete silence - that'd only make it seem boring and without music building up like that, how could anyone possibly consider men running around in silly suits or pepperpots on wheels intimidating.

Check out the Tardisode for episode 13.

It's done with no music whatsoever, and yet manages, due to clever direction and good acting, to be extremely tense and scary - far more so than the actual episode's of Season 2 (parts of Impossible Planet/Satan Pit withstanding).

The music does the job it's supposed to do

Except half the time it doesn't, because the music distracts from the acting.

Some people seem to be drawing some conclusion that there's some deeper profoundness in the first season as compared to the second.

I wouldn't say profoundness, but there's a definate plot arc in S1 that I haven't seen in S2.

[Charles]

mambocat said:

Cybermen VS Daleks! How cool (in a purely geeky sense!) will that be!! WOOOO!!

I'm worried that they won't be able to give the Daleks & their plot justice as well as dealing with all the plot work related to the Cybes & Torchwood and doing a big Cybe-Dal battle. You just can't do all that in 45 minutes, you need an extra episode.

[Kittie Rose]

I hate not being able to watch the Tardisodes. I had to connect both lines and it was still pretty much unwatchable. Stupid forced streaming.

I'm worried that they won't be able to give the Daleks & their plot justice as well as dealing with all the plot work related to the Cybes & Torchwood and doing a big Cybe-Dal battle. You just can't do all that in 45 minutes, you need an extra episode.

Remember it finishes on a cliffhanger. But what about the Xmas special?