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Post by Sin on Jan 6, 2005 0:01:21 GMT
I guess it didn’t affect him cause his metal parts where controlled by a organic brain or something like that… Didn't Vermin have an organic brain but he was frozen like the rest of the Badniks? My (quickly thought up theory) is that either Robotnik built him to be able to restand EMP blasts or perhapse he is built in a simular way to the Guardian Robots, they were not effected.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Jan 6, 2005 0:28:10 GMT
From what I could gather, the EMP whacked out Vermin's armour altogether, which presumably was too heavy for him to carry around him by his own strength alone, which does beg the question of what happened to Shortfuse, since he should've been affected in the same way. I know he was on a prolonged absence from the freedom fighters anyway, but if he had also had his armour knocked out by the EMP then how did he get himsefl up and running again?
Think someone already mentioned this, but in "Showdown" Metamorphia was conjued up by Robotnik whilst he was powered up with the chaos emeralds, so it didn't matter that she'd already transformed back to a normal self, because Robotnik could do anything just by thinking it up. So technically her last real appearance was when she was made into a badnik, destroyed by Tails and then transformed into a normal little girl.
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Post by Ben2k9 on Jan 6, 2005 11:11:14 GMT
Didn't Vermin have an organic brain but he was frozen like the rest of the Badniks? My (quickly thought up theory) is that either Robotnik built him to be able to restand EMP blasts or perhaps he is built in a simular way to the Guardian Robots, they were not effected. Well, no. Vermin was a rat(?) encased in the cybernik armour, although he could not get out he was not a part of it. Zachary however had his cybronincs built as part of him, i.e. physically conected to his body and brain, therfore, they would act like nornal normal body parts because a computer isnt controling them (unlike the program to run Virmins cybernik armour and all other badnik programs) so he wasnt affected. im no physicist in the dynamics of EMP blasts but yes, technically his robotic half should have shut down.
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Post by Charles on Jan 6, 2005 11:17:36 GMT
what happened to Shortfuse, since he should've been affected in the same way. Tekno was probably around and got him up & running again.
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Post by Chigs! on Jan 6, 2005 11:43:38 GMT
Actually, Shortfuse turned up a while later encased in cooled lava - the story given was that he was flying over some lava lake in a suitably themed zone and plummeted in when the EMP hit. There's no real explanation as to how he suddenly got himself woking again to get out - at least nothing too credible as it would surely apply to vermin as well who was completely imobilised, and possibly freed from his armour if memory seves - how did shorty not get burnt to a crips if his armour should have been designed exactly as Vermin's?
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Post by archangelffx on Jan 6, 2005 17:39:01 GMT
I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly, but I think the lava encasing around Shortfuse protected him from the full effect of the EMP. Can't remember how he got home though.
As for Vermin, he turns up carried by Tails in Part 4 of The Final Victory. Theoretically, Tails doesn't have the strength to lift him so it's likely he walked. In that case, both Cyberniks were somehow immune to the full force of the EMP.
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Post by Admin Droid on Jan 6, 2005 19:38:11 GMT
I think Shorty's armour shorted over Lava Lake (or whatever it was called). He magically turned up on shore as a statue -- presumably having climbed out manually. Tekno sorted him out.
Vermin's armour shorted in the middle of the city. He was captured but somehow was given the spark he needed in #120 to reboot his armour's functions -- a by-product of the plan of some kind of villain-of-the-week I think.
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Post by Charles on Jan 6, 2005 20:13:29 GMT
Considering how big an impact Vermin made in his first story, he's had suprisingly few appearences.
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Post by Ben2k9 on Jan 6, 2005 20:47:11 GMT
indeed, He wasnt really used to the effect, I mean Shorty was and invincible killing machine, yet Virmin seemed a lot weaker, whats up with that??
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Post by archangelffx on Jan 6, 2005 21:19:26 GMT
I don't know. Vermin sure hammered Shortfuse a fair few times on their meetings. But Shortfuse is a good guy. He has to be built to last.
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Post by Raxadian on Jan 7, 2005 3:19:49 GMT
Vermin had two brains, the armor one and his organic one. I don’t think Cybernik programming to obey Eggman and destroy Sonic could work without the armor having his own brain. The Cybernik lava idea is lame, couldn’t he just be knocked down by the EMP. But he turn his system off before he gets the full damage, then Tekno finds him and does repairs?.
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Post by Spydaman on Jan 10, 2005 20:44:48 GMT
Sorry to take a step back but I'm suprised no one picked up on the biggest problem with "Amy's Secret Past". I didn't like it cos I did feel it was out of character when compared to how Amy was first portrayed. Yea she was quite strong minded and independant but I don't think she did the whole "I love Sonic" thing as a wind up as she would be purposefully placing herself in danger which is pretty stupid. Amy was originally portrayed as mushy and was anything but motherly and tom-boyish. Come on, if you read the early issues it's plain as day. But yea, back to the big problem with the story...Robotnik. His look is totally totally totally wrong. Why? Because he didn't adopt that look until issue 22 after Amy's first appearence. "Amy's Secret Past" is obviously set before issue 21 yet Robotnik has the wrong design. That griped me more than anything. Someone said in issue 21 Amy was snatched in the middle of the night. There's no indication of this. Considering how many people were around it looks more like it would've been some time in the evening cos plenty of people were up and about. It's obvious Amy was able to use a crossbow but she takes on like 6 troopers in "Amy's Secret Past" single handed with no problems and yet she can't handle one trooper in issue 21. Although it's more a continuity flaw than a plot hole. The Chaotix being pardoned thing never really bothered me. I just accepted it, didn't really care how they were cleared. The crime didn't sound all that interesting in itself anyway. One plot hole that always bugged me was the whole Robotnik Reigns Supreme thing. Cos he erases Sonic from history and yet Sonic is responsible for his creation so really, Kintobor should've existed and Robotnik shoulda poofed out of existence too. Although an easy way to get out of that would be to say the Chaos Energy allowed Robotnik to exist outside time, the same way he keeps Sonic from vanishing too. But either way, Kintobor should've been running around somewhere and you'd think (taking into account the situation when the brotherhood of metallix changed history) that Kintobor would've started a resistance movement of his own. That would've been quite interesting Kintobor Vs Robotnik lol
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Gizmo
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Post by Gizmo on Jan 10, 2005 20:56:14 GMT
Amy was originally portrayed as mushy and was anything but motherly and tom-boyish. Come on, if you read the early issues it's plain as day. But yea, back to the big problem with the story...Robotnik. His look is totally totally totally wrong. Why? Because he didn't adopt that look until issue 22 after Amy's first appearence. "Amy's Secret Past" is obviously set before issue 21 yet Robotnik has the wrong design. That griped me more than anything. They had no choice from what ive been led to beleive stc had to use that design so no matter how many prequell stories they wanted to do the characters would have to look modern. the sky is dark and there are stars, if Im right the moon is also there, also chances are a lot of people are around because the troopers are making a lot of noise in a populated place. I liked amys past, it was a fun story and it is believable despite these hard core critics that try to pull it apart because she doesnt wear the same thing or whatever. its a good story love her dont burn her.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Jan 10, 2005 21:06:27 GMT
I'm not sure sure about that, I did hear that they were forced to change Robotnik's appearance by Sega (no idea why), but whenever they did flashbacks any other time they were pretty on the ball. They did a flashback to Robotnik's old appearance on the prologue of Sonic's World, and again in the Return of Chaotix arc when Sonic had to go back and turn Kintobor into Robotnik to save the world from the hoard of Metallixes. I think this is just a bit of a cock up. The attitude of Amy you could probably debate about for hours, but visually I don't think you can really excuse it. I'm just amazed I never noticed it myself before.
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Post by Spydaman on Jan 10, 2005 21:27:16 GMT
the sky is dark and there are stars, if Im right the moon is also there, also chances are a lot of people are around because the troopers are making a lot of noise in a populated place. I liked amys past, it was a fun story and it is believable despite these hard core critics that try to pull it apart because she doesnt wear the same thing or whatever. its a good story love her dont burn her. But she hd time to take off her night clothes and slip into a frilly skirt? I'm not picking it apart cos she doesnt dress the same It's because the portayal of the character was....well, out of character for the time period. And Robotnik's look is just inexcusable Getting these things right is vital for a storyt's credibility but because it was flawed in continuity, for me it never seemed like a true representation of Amy's origin. It seemed like more of a gimmicky piece. Looking at the story just by itself, it's pretty damn weak as it is so the problems with it just bring it down more. And I'm not saying this as someone who's since grown older and can look at the stories with a more critical eye. I was still a child when I read that and my views are the same now as they were then
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Post by Admin Droid on Jan 11, 2005 0:20:37 GMT
I'm not picking it apart cos she doesnt dress the same It's because the portayal of the character was....well, out of character for the time period. And Robotnik's look is just inexcusable Since I never consider Lew and Nigel's universes to be the same, except coincidentally, I guess I have less of a problem with this anyway. You'd go mad trying to reconcile the differences between the Lew and Nigel verses -- Sonic, Amy, Tails, Grimer and Robotnik in particular are almost entirely different, except for some very general ideas, and the astronomy and ethical backdrop of their strips is different as well. But all that aside, I wonder whether Deborah Tate would really have let Lew write her in what you perceive was her original characterisation. I don't see it, really. But you know, it was a better story than "The Lump"...
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Post by Chosenoneknuckles on Jan 11, 2005 0:22:00 GMT
In response to the Robotnik Reigns Supreme plothole, I think its safe and kinda logic to say that the chaos emeralds allowed Robotnik to exist outside of time and space so changes like erasing sonic wouldnt matter the chaos emeralds are a great mystery still, but hmm where did the actual chaos energy come from? i mean they dug the emeralds out of a mine, doubt some super 'above and over' being just left power hungry marked tools like that lying around?!
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jan 11, 2005 2:12:57 GMT
Amy was originally portrayed as mushy and was anything but motherly and tom-boyish. Come on, if you read the early issues it's plain as day. But yea, back to the big problem with the story...Robotnik. His look is totally totally totally wrong. Why? Because he didn't adopt that look until issue 22 after Amy's first appearence. "Amy's Secret Past" is obviously set before issue 21 yet Robotnik has the wrong design. That griped me more than anything. Yeah. That was a mistake. But I challenge you to come up with a convincing in-story explanation for it But on the other hand, it was the Brotherhood of Metallix that took the egg out of the fridge, and if not for Sonic's existence, they would not have come into being either. (What I didn't understand is why Grimer would have created the Metallix off his own bat, or why Robotnik sent Sonic off to beat the Metallix when not only did he have the means to destroy the entire Brotherhood BUT ALSO SONIC HELD CAPTIVE... oh well, I guess rational logic sometimes escapes the madman!)
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Post by Raxadian on Jan 11, 2005 2:52:36 GMT
Yeah. That was a mistake. But I challenge you to come up with a convincing in-story explanation for it But on the other hand, it was the Brotherhood of Metallix that took the egg out of the fridge, and if not for Sonic's existence, they would not have come into being either. (What I didn't understand is why Grimer would have created the Metallix off his own bat, or why Robotnik sent Sonic off to beat the Metallix when not only did he have the means to destroy the entire Brotherhood BUT ALSO SONIC HELD CAPTIVE... oh well, I guess rational logic sometimes escapes the madman!) He wanted Sonic to die fighting… Without Robotnik I guess Grimer would be the greatest scientific around. He tries to Conquer Mobius and he was the one fighting Sonic, until he creates the Metallix and they kill him and Sonic.
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Post by Ben2k9 on Jan 11, 2005 11:43:56 GMT
yeah it was like killing 2 birds with 1 stone, the Metallix kill sonic the blip, all the metallixs are destroyed.
It was perfectly logical to me, I mean I dont think Sonic could've stood up to all the Metallixs in the egg fortress so Robotniks plan was pretty much flawless (except he didnt expect the Metallixs would come to Mobius that that time).
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Post by Charles on Jan 11, 2005 13:27:08 GMT
Cos he erases Sonic from history and yet Sonic is responsible for his creation Not quite. Kintobor became Robotnik due to a lab accident- the Metallix then changed history by ensuring the accident would never happen. What Sonic did was change history again, by heavily making sure the accident happen. (Kintobor trips over a cable on the floor the first time- when Sonic goes back, the cable is yanked upwards). Of course, no Sonic = no Metallix, so the original accident happened. That's what you think. Plus it's hard to keep them seperate when they have very blatant crossovers at points- Sonic's World is affected by Sonic being in the SZ, Final Victory has stuff by both writers linked together, Showdown brings in Lew villains alongside Nigel ones, Revolution makes reference to the Metallix, Coming Of Chaos follows on directly from Game Over, blah blah blah... Ah, but: a) He needs to get Grimer back. If Grimer's lost to him, Robotnik will have to do all the mad-science work himself for a change! b) It's a laugh, innit? c) If Sonic's captive, the Freedom Fighter's could rescue him- if he executes Sonic, the FF's could continue on. But if Sonic is off fighting the Metallix and they get dragged in, he gets the whole group wiped out in one go. This would've come back to bite him in the arse when Brutus rebelled, coz there'd be no Sonic to distract him from blowing Robotnik's brains out!
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Post by madhair60 on Jan 11, 2005 13:46:35 GMT
Yeah. That was a mistake. But I challenge you to come up with a convincing in-story explanation for it His other clothes were in the wash. Dear Lord i'm hilarious.
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 11, 2005 15:09:53 GMT
Since I never consider Lew and Nigel's universes to be the same, except coincidentally, I guess I have less of a problem with this anyway. You'd go mad trying to reconcile the differences between the Lew and Nigel verses -- Sonic, Amy, Tails, Grimer and Robotnik in particular are almost entirely different, except for some very general ideas, and the astronomy and ethical backdrop of their strips is different as well. But all that aside, I wonder whether Deborah Tate would really have let Lew write her in what you perceive was her original characterisation. I don't see it, really. But you know, it was a better story than "The Lump"... Oh, I don't know, I rather enjoyed 'The Lump'... "I really see myself as more of a 'Keanu'..." ;D
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Post by Admin Droid on Jan 12, 2005 15:12:08 GMT
That's what you think. Plus it's hard to keep them seperate when they have very blatant crossovers at points- Sonic's World is affected by Sonic being in the SZ, Final Victory has stuff by both writers linked together, Showdown brings in Lew villains alongside Nigel ones, Revolution makes reference to the Metallix, Coming Of Chaos follows on directly from Game Over, blah blah blah... I'm not saying they don't interlink. They were in the same comic, they had to at times. But I think it's best to try and look at the two writers' stories separately for the most part -- as I would for different writers' takes on other comic series.
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Spudiator
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Post by Spudiator on Jan 17, 2005 16:31:44 GMT
One odd thing I've noticed, this isn't a plot hole, more just a strange artistic error. In The Origin of Sonic (STC#8) when brown Sonic makes his very first appearance, he hasn't got any ears!!!
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