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Post by Emilybee on Jun 8, 2010 22:08:50 GMT
No, a Gary Stu or a Mary Sue is a character who has no flaws and is completely perfect in every way (see Amy Rose during the time that STC was edited by that feminist woman). The name comes from someone who took the piss out of Star Trek fic writers, by introducing a character who became an Admiral while she was 14, or something like that. It's a criticism, as these characters do not make for a good plot at all. The trouble is, I half a decade ago had a lengthy dicussion with someone and when we sat down and read through the long list of what makes a Mary-Sue what she is... Came to the conclusion that when it boils down to it, ANY character can become a Mary-Sue in any moment. In fact we drew points against every character from one particular kids show (W.I.T.C.H or Winx Club I think it was) and pretty much said the entire cast was variable degrees of Mary-Sue-ism. A few more shows later... And we just gave up, odd shows like Spongebob square pants, Invader Zim and "Edd, Ed and Eddy", Billy and Mandy... They passed the test... But shows like the two I mentioned were close to the line. (some of the K.N.D didn't pass the test but the show wasn't so bad overall). I lost the link to that points thingy... Its somewhere on the net. In fact the only apsect that remains is the idea she is PERFECT no matter what happens. Hence why I said "whoever is the most popular", as that tends to be exactly where a Mary-Sue ends up or as a love interest for the Main character. She can endure **** all and still get what she wants (and want the fans don't want). Rose Tylor ends up the hinted love interest of the Doctor, which is also typical of the MAry-Sue. On a note; I prefer the Doctors current companion...
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Pitt
Script Hume
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Post by Pitt on Jun 10, 2010 23:05:23 GMT
In fact the only apsect that remains is the idea she is PERFECT no matter what happens. Hence why I said "whoever is the most popular", as that tends to be exactly where a Mary-Sue ends up or as a love interest for the Main character. She can endure **** all and still get what she wants (and want the fans don't want). Rose Tylor ends up the hinted love interest of the Doctor, which is also typical of the MAry-Sue. I've heard that there's a type of Mary Sue character that actually isn't perfect but still manages to steal the spotlight from the ostensible main characters. This is usually the result of a writer reading up on the typical traits of a Mary Sue and over-correcting themselves in their efforts to avert them. As a consequence, the character could be at a "normal" level, but they're still the writer's pet character so they get to be at the centre of all the action to the detriment of the existing heroes.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 11, 2010 7:13:32 GMT
Yep, there was a special term invented for that. I can't remember what was used. There was a lot of that when the beyblade fanficition circled, the tragic heroine (often a love interest of Hiwatari Kai).
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Post by Baron Canier on Jun 11, 2010 12:24:03 GMT
Most people do not know what the term "Mary Sue" actually entails and more often than not simply apply it to "Any character I don't like who I feel is getting too much focus". This makes discussing the actual implications of the term very [censored]ing annoying.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 11, 2010 12:57:26 GMT
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Pitt
Script Hume
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Post by Pitt on Jun 11, 2010 15:14:09 GMT
In conclusion, then, a Mary Sue is almost impossible to decisively define.
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Post by ShayMay on Jun 11, 2010 15:15:42 GMT
This takes me back to 2nd year English... Spent ages arguing with no real conclusion. Oh, and Mrs. McGowan falling asleep because she put cannabis in her coffee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2010 15:47:20 GMT
ShayMay you still argue a lot with no conclusion and she still puts cannabis in her coffee
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 12, 2010 21:21:21 GMT
In conclusion, then, a Mary Sue is almost impossible to decisively define. Pretty much, ite open to ones opinions. The orginal test I did with the various characters from shows was done on the basis of, if a character scored more then 80 points it should be shot at dawn. It it got below 60, it wasn't too bad. I really wish I'd saved that link... I've had several Mary-Sue discussions like this over the year. @shaymay my friend put laxatives in his teachers coffee... If they'd known it was him, he would have been in serious trouble, but he did it on the very last day of school before leaving highschool forever. The other thing he did on the last day was fill a disk with viruses and unleash it on the schools network... It took them weeks to undo his mess. I'm gladI didn't go to the same school as him... '
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Aria
Big Time Boomer
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Post by Aria on Jun 16, 2010 7:00:00 GMT
I thought a Mary Sue was an overused, generic idea in which it is obvious to the reader / viewer that it is a generic, overused idea that also happens to steal the spotlight from the main character and has some generic, overused story that also gets her (or him, on occasion) a pity party from the canon characters and some generic, overused and wretch-worthy cheesy all-mightyness when they believe in themselves or open their heart or some other gay [censored] like that.
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Pitt
Script Hume
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Post by Pitt on Jun 16, 2010 16:32:38 GMT
That's a pretty good definition.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 17, 2010 16:40:24 GMT
I thought a Mary Sue was an overused, generic idea in which it is obvious to the reader / viewer that it is a generic, overused idea that also happens to steal the spotlight from the main character and has some generic, overused story that also gets her (or him, on occasion) a pity party from the canon characters and some generic, overused and wretch-worthy cheesy all-mightyness when they believe in themselves or open their heart or some other gay [censored] like that. Actually that reminds me, I should have used that test on many of the anime characters back when I was a serious anime fan. I think a lot of them fall into this at times. Actually, I'm kicking myself now I don't remember the url.
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Aria
Big Time Boomer
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Post by Aria on Jun 18, 2010 13:45:40 GMT
Actually that reminds me, I should have used that test on many of the anime characters back when I was a serious anime fan. I think a lot of them fall into this at times. Actually, I'm kicking myself now I don't remember the url. Anime characters are all like this though, especially since there's only about ten templates for them anyway. Doesn't stop me from watching it... I think it applies to a lot of things, not just anime. Avatar fit he bill when it ran. (Awesome show though even if everything in it's cliche.)
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Post by Heart the Wolf on Jun 18, 2010 21:05:51 GMT
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Pitt
Script Hume
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Post by Pitt on Jun 19, 2010 21:52:26 GMT
I think it applies to a lot of things, not just anime. Avatar fit he bill when it ran. (Awesome show though even if everything in it's cliche.) It always seemed aware of the cliches it had, though, and used them in an entertaining way. Maybe I'm wrong. I've not seen an episode of Avatar in ages.
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Aria
Big Time Boomer
One of few stars and many words.
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Post by Aria on Jun 19, 2010 22:10:10 GMT
Looks like a fuse of Sonia and Blaze with Sonic's shoes. I'm just picking on you. Definitely never seen that design before on a character. I agree though, not all of them are recolored Shadows with emo pasts. My username actually comes from a fan character of mine. She's not my 'pet' fan character, but I like her. I'll have to draw her sometime. It always seemed aware of the cliches it had, though, and used them in an entertaining way. Maybe I'm wrong. I've not seen an episode of Avatar in ages. No, that's pretty accurate. Avatar was essentially a satire of anime anyway so it's cliches were supposed to be funny. Tropes and cliches can be used in good ways, but very few fanfics do.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 22, 2010 21:43:46 GMT
Teen Titans and Legion of Super heroes also borrowed some anime things, especially TT. I actually liked TT. How they got away with Raven's story in a kids show I DON'T know... But I want to kiss whoever let it slip through. It was one step away from being unacceptable to its target audience.
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Aria
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Post by Aria on Jun 27, 2010 16:50:06 GMT
Teen Titans and Legion of Super heroes also borrowed some anime things, especially TT. I actually liked TT. How they got away with Raven's story in a kids show I DON'T know... But I want to kiss whoever let it slip through. It was one step away from being unacceptable to its target audience. Doesn't surprise me it was thrown in. Kids love the dark magic emo story, there had to be one in there somewhere. Notice how she's the most popular character... Her stories were the most interesting though, if only because I'm a nerd for things like that.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 27, 2010 17:14:52 GMT
Funny, because the best story was Robin's one overall. The worst was Cyborg's... Brother Blood wasn't seriously misused considering his the leader of a culture that KILLS people and he himself bathes in the blood of his followers as a rite of passage to become leader of the cult.
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Aria
Big Time Boomer
One of few stars and many words.
Posts: 410
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Post by Aria on Jun 27, 2010 20:30:01 GMT
Funny, because the best story was Robin's one overall. The worst was Cyborg's... Brother Blood wasn't seriously misused considering his the leader of a culture that KILLS people and he himself bathes in the blood of his followers as a rite of passage to become leader of the cult. I can't even remember Robin's story, I remember an episode where he fought at a dojo which was bad-ass but otherwise I just remember everyone else getting the character development and Robin being the elitist babysitter.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 27, 2010 21:39:11 GMT
There was quite a bit developement actually for Robin, but it was lost in him being the TT's sub for there being no Batman in the show. He had the ordeal with Slade, things like taking life too seriously, sticking the honest straight way... Starfire. His close-nit friendship with Raven. Dealing with Slade throughout the series in one shape or form.
But Beast Boy had the MOST devloement overall, since his storyline throughout the show from season 2 to the last episode was about "growing up". Starfire and Cyborg had the least two.
That kinda reminds me on how flat many fanmades are, when devleopment hits its forced not introduced.
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Pitt
Script Hume
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Post by Pitt on Jun 28, 2010 10:52:07 GMT
Funny, because the best story was Robin's one overall. The worst was Cyborg's... Brother Blood wasn't seriously misused considering his the leader of a culture that KILLS people and he himself bathes in the blood of his followers as a rite of passage to become leader of the cult. He also bit off somebody's nose. You didn't honestly expect that to show up in a children's cartoon, did you?
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 28, 2010 15:40:06 GMT
Funny, because the best story was Robin's one overall. The worst was Cyborg's... Brother Blood wasn't seriously misused considering his the leader of a culture that KILLS people and he himself bathes in the blood of his followers as a rite of passage to become leader of the cult. He also bit off somebody's nose. You didn't honestly expect that to show up in a children's cartoon, did you? Like a bad fanfiction story, they used a character and made it too much out of character. Honestly, it would have been better if they'd created a fresh character then missuse an exisitng one.
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Pitt
Script Hume
Ungrateful Sonic Saxophonist
If Lando dies, I'll destroy your planet!
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Post by Pitt on Jun 28, 2010 19:35:51 GMT
It's probably just easier to use pre-existing DC properties. I think they had exactly one major character that never appeared in any of the comics (it was Red X - Geoff Johns included Mas Y Menos in a montage of Titans who joined during 52) and it never went anywhere.
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Post by Emilybee on Jun 29, 2010 12:56:01 GMT
Control Freak was orginal, but Red X was definately a much better character. Control Freak was the 3rd most "fun" character, the second being Mumbo and Mad Mod was sadly the top(yuck!).
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